- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by The WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you, thank you.

- State and local priorities for 2026, tonight, on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I'm joined tonight by two elected officials from the Memphis-Shelby County area.

Shante Avant is the Shelby County Commission Chair.

Thanks for being here.

- Thank you for having me.

- Raumesh Akbari is Senate Minority Leader for representing the Memphis area.

Thank you for being here again.

- Of course.

- Along with Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

I'll note at the top real quick before I get started.

We have two Democratic officials here.

We're really happy to have them.

We reached out to some Republicans, we couldn't get it scheduled.

We will certainly get them scheduled in the past.

And again as I always say to people, it all kind of balances out over time.

But again, thank you for being here.

You are about to start a State Senate, the State Legislative Session here in a couple of weeks.

County Commissioner, you're in your what, fourth year now?

Just elected Chair in September.

It's hard not to start with the task force, and with the various parts of it.

And I always try to break it down and I think other people who've sat at this table and talked about it, elected officials, residents, citizens.

There's the National Guard element, which is kind of its own entity.

We see a lot of traffic enforcement and I'm quite sure there's the U.S.

Marshals, TBI, the State Troopers who are here often, but now here in bigger numbers, or have been here in bigger numbers.

And then there's the ICE part.

And you can disagree with that breakdown.

With the surge of the non-ICE federal, with the U.S.

Marshals with TBI, with FBI, with the other surge, warrants.

A lot of people who have come to the table and here, Democrats and Republicans welcome that surge of law enforcement, where its been focused on slowing down the roads, violent criminals, or outstanding warrants.

For that portion of what's been done, do you agree with that take or disagree?

- You know, I'll tell you.

We've had a long history of the Tennessee Highway Patrol doing surge work in Memphis.

It's something that we've asked for, especially when it comes to enforcement on our highways.

Obviously, crime is an issue.

It's an issue nationwide.

So anytime we can have additional resources and it's coordinating properly with our city and our state officials, and particularly with MPD and Mayor Young, I welcome it.

Obviously, the ICE element is one that I am not a fan of.

I think that they are not going after those who we really need to have, folks that are committing crimes.

Instead it's more so creating a culture of fear.

But definitely, if you're looking at, you know, weapons on our streets, drugs on our streets, trying to find people who have these warrants for severe crimes, I welcome that.

I just wanna make sure that it's done in a humane way.

- And your district includes what parts of Memphis and Shelby County?

- So my district starts in Millington.

But it includes South Memphis, Southwest Memphis, Whitehaven, Cooper Young, Central Gardens and parts of downtown.

It's about 200,000 people.

- Yeah, same question to you.

- I have similar thoughts about the resources that have been brought to bear.

And you know, daily we get a report about the number of arrests and warrants that have been executed.

So when you think about those violent crimes that have, with additional resources, been able to be solved, yes.

I think those resources have been valuable when working in cooperation with our local authorities.

But again, the ICE piece is a huge area of concern for me.

In that, we have families who are scared to walk their children to school, right?

And so, when you think about attendance at some of the schools that are highly populated by Hispanic families, and the reduction of attendance for those students, it is very alarming.

It's very concerning.

I worked with a few teachers to give out baskets at Thanksgiving.

And it was them meeting in kind of, you know, hiding, just to give them baskets.

Because they're so fearful of being out and ICE picking them up and separating them from their family.

- One more from me, and we'll go to Bill.

For people who are listening who say, "Yeah, but some of those people are here illegally.

"They don't have the proper permits, "they don't have proper documentation, "they shouldn't be here and ICE should get them out of the country."

What is your response?

Either of you.

- Yeah, my response is again, we've rationalized these additional resources by saying you're gonna stop the flow of Fentanyl.

You're gonna stop these hardened criminals from being on the streets.

These are people who have been a part of the community.

They have been a part of the economy.

And most of their children are American citizens.

So it's talking about the very core and foundation of our communities.

And also being undocumented is not a crime.

It is a civil offense.

And so using these types of resources, and harm, and you look at the shooting in Minnesota and all of the violence that we see and the culture of fear that it creates.

It's just not, when you have limited resources, in my opinion, it's not a good way to use them.

- Anything to add to that?

- I'm in agreement.

I really do feel like we think about the folks who are adding to this economy.

People who go to work every day, right?

And so how do we say that these resources should be breaking up families?

For me that's a real challenge.

- Yeah, let me bring in Bill.

- So once this task force is over, once it comes to an end, however it comes to an end, what should come next?

- Well I think, you know, the gains we've made in reducing crime we were already on that trajectory prior to the task force coming.

So any ways that we can leverage the resources that were here for us to continue to address some of the needs of this community, of course.

I mean, I think working with our local officials, working with Mayor Young, working with Mayor Harris, working with the Sheriff's Department.

Any of those strategies that have been deployed that have helped continue the decrease in crime, I think that's where we should be moving forward.

- And I have to agree with Commissioner Avant.

At the end of the day our local law enforcement, those are the folks that are gonna remain, our local elected officials.

And so, let's look and see what has been a best practice through this task force, this federal infusion.

And also, what were we already doing to reduce crime?

Nationally, we saw this significant uptick.

And now we're seeing nationally this decline.

This is an opportunity for us to create the safe city that we know that we can be.

Because I represent downtown.

We need folks to come into the city.

We need tourism dollars and we need folks spending money and feeling safe.

And I think also part of that is perception.

We've had a decrease in crime, but now because of this large law enforcement presence, people feel that.

So maybe even looking at how we're recruiting our police officers and the like.

- Right, and crime is probably one of the few issues where perceptions about crime are valid.

Because people don't do things they would ordinarily do.

Don't feel like they can.

But it seems, at least to me, like with people who are saying, "Well, the local numbers are suspect."

And then you have people who say, "Well, the numbers from the task force seem suspect because it comes off of traffic stops."

So you know, is there a way that we get past your numbers aren't right and your numbers aren't right?

- I think we have to take the politics out of it.

We see a lot of it being blue versus red, Democrat verse Republican, suburban versus urban issue.

Instead, we need to continue to promote transparency.

I like the dashboards that are being put out.

If you have numbers, you need to have the information behind it.

And at some point I thinks as Memphians, we have to believe in the people that we elect.

Because if we're doubting the numbers constantly, who do we believe?

What do we believe?

Someone on Facebook who's talking about how terrible Memphis is?

Or are we gonna believe numbers with actual support behind it?

Showing that hey, Memphis actually is a beautiful place to live.

- All right, Madame Chair, this has had the effect of putting a lot of people in the Shelby County Jail.

To the point that some of those people are actually in what are basically annexes to the jail.

Has this heightened the issue for the County Commission?

- Oh absolutely.

I mean, when we think about the resources.

Just as of October of last year with the surge, when the surge began.

We had double-digit increases in what we are spending from both Corrections, from General Sessions, and from the Sheriff's Department.

And that's, you know, salaries, it's overtime.

When you're thinking about the number of people who are coming into the jail, we have to house and feed each inmate.

And so with this increase, they've had over $4 million that has been additional.

Like they're using their budget now with hopes that we're gonna be reimbursed, right, for the resources that have been spent.

But we will definitely, this will be a very important conversation for us to continue to have with even our state [laughs], with our state officials about reimbursement of resources that have been utilized.

- And Madame Leader, what do you here on the state side?

Has this changed the dynamics of what was some hesitancy from the Republican leadership to commit to state money for a new jail?

- I don't think so, honestly.

I mean, the conversation was pretty difficult last year.

Unfortunately the mechanism that we're looking at is to raise sales tax.

Which is highly unpopular.

I carried the legislation in the Senate.

It passed out of committee.

But it was not without strong opposition from a lot of the industry that I support in the city like tourism, like our hotels and motels.

So I don't think so, but the fact remains, 201 Poplar is a humanitarian crisis.

We know that to be true.

On a federal level, I hope that with the alleged additional resources, it hopefully will be reimbursed for.

They'll also look at providing some resources for a new facility.

Because at the end of the day, these are gonna result in lawsuits.

And that's more taxpayer dollars being spent.

But a billion dollars is a significant price tag for a new facility.

People are okay with paying for new schools.

But when you talk about paying for a new jail, it gets real tricky.

And I remind folks when I first ran for office, a referendum to increase the sales tax for pre-K failed.

So certainly to build a new jail, I don't anticipate it will be successful anyway.

- So what's the balance like on the questions about a new jail?

Because there are critics of building a new jail who say, "A new jail does not help where there are obviously "some problems with training an administration of that jail."

- Well, I think you have to have both, right?

I mean, you cannot deny the fact that, you know, that you have gates that don't lock.

You have elevators and escalators that don't work.

You have mold.

You have all of these issues that are not only an issue for those who are being incarcerated but those who work there.

I think it takes all of that.

Obviously, you do need to look at training and protocol in everything.

Anytime you see a problem like that, you have to go from a top to bottom review in my opinion.

But the facilities cannot be ignored.

- There's no way that you can ignore having an antiquated building.

I mean, when we think about even just for the safety of the sheriff's officer, deputies who work there, for the employees.

I mean, think about that as a humanitarian issue as well, right?

Because we have this building which we know is not safe.

But not negating that there are some definite administrative issues that need to be addressed.

And as Senator Akbari said, you know, training is a huge part of that.

But you can't separate one from the other.

- Well, I want to stay with the jail for a minute.

It's also, I mean, who would want to work there?

Especially at a time when MPD and the suburban, and the state, they're hiring officers with big bonuses.

So if you have law enforcement bent as a career, they're all these other paths that pay more money.

Conditions are well, I mean, they're dangerous 'cause it's an inherently dangerous job.

But I mean, that is also a problem.

Lee Harris, county, I'll go to you first, Shante.

But Lee Harris suggest on the show, what, a month ago?

Maybe we need to bring in a private contractor.

It stunned me when he said it.

He said, "Look, I've been against that my entire career.

But the conditions are so bad."

And in his take, the training and the way it's being managed is so bad.

That it's maybe time to look at that.

Is that palatable to you and then to the Senator?

- You know, I've never been a fan of bringing outside folks to come in to help us solve what are local problems.

Now if the administration, the sheriff decided that that was something that he needed additional support with, I could support that.

But it would not be my preferred.

- Senator?

- Definitely not.

I think we look at CoreCivic and the issues that we've had in our state prisons from, you know, food just being moldy to patients, I mean inmates not getting the care they need when they're patients.

We look at training and issues and this need to fill beds.

It has not been a successful venture.

Now to that end, I think there is value in a public-private partnership when we talk about building a new facility.

But it has to be done in a way that's more beneficial to the community.

- CoreCivic being one of the big contractors, prison management contractors.

I'm gonna shift gears a bit, county finances, and I'll go to you, county commissioner.

The state comptroller sometime last year said, we don't want anymore borrowing, anymore issuing of debt by the Shelby County government.

We're concerned about, you know, the financial situation.

There was some concern about cash being very tight towards the end of the year.

Are you confident that the county can get its finances on track in a way that it can issue debt after this, what is it?

Through next summer that the comptroller said, that don't want any debt issued.

That feeds into the jail, that feeds into the schools, things we've mentioned, road construction.

All the bread and butter of government, let alone the big projects, Regional One potentially.

Give us your take on county finances.

- Yeah so it obviously was alarming for us to get the letter that we did from the comptroller.

And we know that internally there were some things that had to be corrected through the administration.

But I am confident that we will be able to issue debt for projects that we will have in fiscal year '27.

When this occurred, I think some of the challenges that we knew were before us, were we had the surge, we had additional resources that the county was utilizing.

But there's this time of year every year that cash flow is low, right?

Because we depend, the largest part of our revenue comes from our taxes, right?

From county taxes.

And so there are two trenches that fall at different times of the year.

And that's always this cash flow problem.

But it does not negate that there needed to be, from an administrative standpoint that there should of been something done.

- We have about 10 minutes here.

Unless, did you wanna add anything on that comptroller situation?

- I'll say real quickly.

- Yeah.

- When I saw the report, I immediately called the comptroller.

And he explained to me what was going on.

And I think it is an issue with the administration.

And they've gotta step up and do what they're supposed to do.

They were aware of this issue.

And you know, it puts the County Commission in a very tough position.

So I'm hoping it will be corrected.

- Do what they have to do, being?

- What the comptroller is saying their deficiencies in the reporting or that they've provided, that put him in a position to reject it.

- Let me switch gears, we have 10 minutes left of show.

Let me remind everyone, too, if you're coming in late, we have two Democrat officials here today which we're very happy to have.

We had reached out to some Republicans, they couldn't get scheduled.

We'll get, you know, over the course of the next weeks and months, we'll certainly have Republicans on, more Democrats and so on.

But I guess I'll start with you, Senator.

I mentioned Regional One.

It's a big priority for Reginald Coopwood and the administration of Regional One.

Lee Harris has really put a lot behind it.

The County Commission has committed some $300-400 million over time to it.

It's expected to be a billion dollar plus project.

The state so far hasn't come forward.

What is your sense of why, or is there among your colleagues any sense that that will change, that they will come forward with money to support a new Regional One?

- Well, I'm hoping that they will.

Obviously Regional One is a leader in this region, providing trauma care.

I'm excited about the promise of what it will bring to our community.

Not just for the care people will receive, but also for our economy.

Now I think the state didn't jump in because Memphis has had a lot of big requests the last several years.

And obviously they have to rank things and Regional One's request was pretty large.

I think they have a more pared down request.

It's kind of been separated from the request the University of Tennessee's medical school is looking at.

And so I'm hoping the state will jump in.

Also I mean with any requests for funding, there's always gonna be somebody against it.

And so you have other hospitals that are not necessarily in support of Regional One receiving those funds.

So just kind of pushing through that as well.

- Commissioner, are you confident that the business plan supporting this massive expansion is gonna... that the county isn't gonna get itself in financial trouble?

I mean, we've got Methodist Hospital, which we've reported on, I think they've talked about.

They got a lot of empty capacity.

There's a lot of uncertainty about ObamaCare, Affordable Care Act subsidies.

Medicaid expansion has not happened in Tennessee.

It seems unlikely.

Like it's a really difficult business.

I'm not criticizing Regional One or any of the hospitals in terms of the care they give.

But in terms of a business model, is this saddling them with something that they can't really afford?

- Well I think part of what we have decided to focus on is really the trauma center, right?

That is the most immediate need.

And so when you're thinking about the hospital business, we do.

We have great facilities here.

And all of our hospital facilities, with Methodist and with Baptist.

And so I think there is an opportunity for us to do something really well.

And for this community to get behind something that we can do very well, which is build a trauma center.

- Would you like to see Methodist, Baptist, St.

Fran-, others being more supportive in some form or fashion of that?

- I think everyone is supportive of us having the best healthcare we can for the folks in our community.

And so I don't negate that all of us can get around having a trauma center that is here in our community that is first-class.

Because that's what is deserved.

- Okay, Bill?

- And the trauma center piece of this is estimated at about $900 million.

The overall for a whole campus has grown to about $1.9 billion of that.

- Thanks for the correction.

- Is the county possibly going to have to take on more of the first money end of this?

- I think so.

I mean, I think the county is... will have to make some strategic decisions over the next four years.

I mean, it's kind of the changing of the guard, right?

So it's hard for me to say what the county will commit to at this point because we're in an election year.

And so, we're gonna have a lot of new faces at the County Commission.

And so, I think building momentum for the support that is needed, those are gonna be strategic conversations.

And this budget year is a crucial budget year for us, right?

Because we know that there has been more expenses in the revenue that we have to bear.

So, tough conversations are always about is it time to raise our taxes?

And that's the hardest conversation to have.

But I mean, in 20 years we haven't had a tax increase.

And so I think there is a lot that we as a county will have to tackle in the next four years.

Hopefully I'll be back to do that, running for reelection.

And so, having those conversations, but I think one of the things that is crucial is, we have to be prepared for us to put in the resources needed for all of the things that we're expecting to have as a community.

- Right, and the County Commission in this past budget season, you all have a pretty fair discussion about this, but it seemed like ultimately, what was the barrier to getting seven votes on this, was agreeing on what the priority is.

Correct or incorrect?

- I agree with that.

There were some that wanted to focus more on prevention and investment in young people and there were some that wanted to invest more in pre-K.

So there were, you know, no, there're not opposite ends of the spectrum, but I think it just kind of broke down, maybe about 1 AM, where we couldn't decide on those last few pennies.

It's unfortunate, because this would've been the year that we did need to put some of those resources in place.

Not even knowing that we were gonna have a surge and all these other things that are gonna be very hard on our budget but yes, I think there was some discourse about how this initial investment.

If we were gonna raise taxes, yes.

- On the other hand, I think the Commission's discussion kind of moved away from what I've seen in past years, and that is let's give a little bit to about 10 or 15 things just so everybody can feel like they're getting something, but nothing gets done.

- And I don't think that, I wouldn't describe that as the discussion this year.

I think really we were, there were two main issues.

It's really about how we're addressing public safety.

And the approach to that is, should that be more of an investment for young people and resources in our community?

Or should it be at pre-K?

So those were, to me, the two largest.

You know, they're not very far from each other but, I'm sorry that we weren't able to get there.

- So, once all the votes are counted in August, there will be a new majority, eight new faces at least, - At least.

- On the Shelby County Commission out of 13, a new county mayor, a new Shelby County sheriff.

What does that do to momentum on some of the projects we've talked about here?

New jail, Regional One, things like that?

Is it reassessment, or is it just ground zero again?

- No, I think it's really building from the folks who are there, how we're building partnerships.

Because for me, it isn't about Democrat or Republican on the County Commission, it's about Shelby County as a whole.

And so, I have never been shied away from making sure that I'm able to talk to people across the aisle to get some things done.

So I think it's really taking, we'll be senior leaders on the Commission.

And so, I see that as part of my responsibility in building a coalition of people who can understand the investment that has been made, and then how do we move those things forward?

- Just a couple, really a minute and a half left here.

I wanted to switch to the county clerk.

The County Clerk, Wanda Halbert.

Is I believe, termed out this year.

There'll be a new county clerk race this coming year.

But, I can't say everyone's frustrated, because she was elected and reelected.

But I know at the County Commission level, the county mayor, there's been immense frustrate, I mean, wheel tax revenue, all of us in Memphis see this huge number of temporary tags.

They're just, you know, the auto dealers are frustrated.

And it's kind of the bread and butter of government at a certain level, of what people want, they want roads without potholes, they want safe streets, they want schools.

And they want that bread and butter stuff to work.

And at the state level, there have been some state efforts to have accountability on the performance of the county clerk that really haven't happened.

The County Commission has had the same experience.

From you, from the state, is there a better role for the county clerks not just in Shelby County?

- Well, I think statewide, we really have to make sure that we're getting qualified people there.

I always kind of go back and forth with, should they be appointed?

Should they be elected?

You don't want it to be a political appointment as well.

But at the end of the day, that's a very critical role, and we really have to weigh our candidates and those who can actually do the job in the way that we need.

Because I get complaints from auto dealers in Georgia who are upset about what's happening here.

- I'm sure.

- Yeah.

- I mean, constituents must call you.

- Oh yeah, constantly.

- They must email you.

- Same for you, the County Commission has tried and tried, even before you were on there.

Do you look back and say, we need a better structure?

- You know, I think I would encourage people who are thinking about who they want to be the next county clerk.

Think about experience.

It is an administrative role of people who need to have experience administrating an office with so many multiple functions.

And so that would be my recommendation to anyone, as you're making a decision, [Eric laughing] and pulling that lever, that's important.

- Okay, thank you both, thank you for being here.

Thank you Bill.

Thank you for joining us.

If you missed any of the show you can get the full episode online, WKNO.org, the Daily Memphian, YouTube.

You can also download the show as a podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks very much, and we'll see you next week.

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