>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

PLENTY OF POMP AND EVEN MORE CHALLENGES.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WELCOMES PRESIDENT XI TO THE WHITE HOUSE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A DECADE.

AI, TRADE, WAR ALL ON THE TABLE.

FOR THE EUROPEAN PERSPECTIVE, I'LL BE SPEAKING TO THE EU COMMISSION PRESIDENT URSULA VON DER LEYEN.

WE'LL ALSO DISCUSS THE EU'S INTERNAL THREATS AND NEW ALLIANCES.

> >> THEN, THE FORMER AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER AND CHINA EXPERT KEVIN RUDD JOINS ME WITH HIS UNIQUE INSIGHT INTO PRESIDENT XI, ONE OF THE WORLD'S MOST ENIGMATIC LEADERS.

> >> AND -- >> WE'VE ALLOWED THE NATURE OF WARFARE TO BE MUCH MORE DANGEROUS AND DEADLY TO CIVILIANS, A LOT MORE ATTACKS ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE ENERGY, POWER PLANTS, PORTS, HOSPITALS, THINGS THAT CIVILIANS NEED TO SURVIVE.

>> YEMEN, GAZA, SUDAN, SYRIA, ALL TORN APART BY CONFLICT.

A FIRSTHAND ACCOUNT OF HOW THEY'RE TRYING TO REBUILD WITH HUMANITARIAN THE --TJADA D'OYEN McKENNA.

>>> "AMANPOUR & CO. "

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THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR AT THE UNITED NATIONS.

FRIENDS OR FOES, OR NEITHER?

THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION AS PRESIDENT TRUMP HOSTS CHINESE LEADER PRESIDENT XI JINPING AT A MAJOR SUMMIT TODAY.

NOW NORMALLY, WE'D BE SHOWING YOU PICTURES OF THIS IMPORTANT EVENT, BUT UNTIL CNN'S ACCESS TO THE MEDIA POOL COVERING THE WHITE HOUSE IS FULLY RESTORED, WE ARE NOT DOING SO.

NONETHELESS, IT IS, AS WE SAID, A PIVOTAL MEETING BETWEEN THESE LEADERS, LEADERS OF THE TWO MOST POWERFUL NATIONS.

ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM AI TO TRADE TO WORLD WARS, AND OF COURSE EUROPE WILL BE WATCHING VERY CLOSELY INDEED.

THE EU ITSELF HAS MUCH TO GRAPPLE WITH FROM ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA TO A RESURGENT FAR RIGHT TO THE THREAT FROM RUSSIA TO MANAGING THAT ALL IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES.

AS THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT URSULA VON DER LEYEN LAID OUT FOR ME TODAY IN AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW.

PRESIDENT URSULA VON DER LEYEN, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME HERE.

>> IT IS A VERY INTERESTING TIME WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE UN BASHING, A LOT OF PEOPLE MULTILATERAL BASHING, PARTICULARLY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE U. N. AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE EU, NATO, MULTILATERAL ORGANIZATIONS CAN STILL DO TO UPHOLD THE WORLD ORDER?

>> I THINK WE NEED MULTILATERALISM.

AND WHAT WE ARE DOING IS, FOR EXAMPLE, WE SEE MANY, MANY COUNTRIES WANTING TO HAVE FREE TRADE AGREEMENT WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION BECAUSE WE ARE PREDICTABLE AND WE'RE STABLE.

FOR EXAMPLE, THIS YEAR I CLOSED FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS WITH INDIA, INDONESIA, MEXICO, AUSTRALIA, AND LAST WEEK WITH THE PHILIPPINES.

AND I THINK THIS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF THAT THEY WANT AT EYES LEVEL PLAYING BY THE RULES THAT ARE ACKNOWLEDGED BY EVERYBODY.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

>> TELL US ABOUT CANADA, BECAUSE LAST WEEK COMING INTO THIS SUMMIT HERE, THE CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER CAME TO THE PARLIAMENT IN STRASBOURG.

YOU WERE THERE.

YOU SORT OF MOUTHED OR INDICATED THAT MAYBE HE COULD BE THE FIRST ASSOCIATE MEMBER.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN AND WHAT IS THE REALITY OF HOW CLOSE CANADA CAN GET TO THE EU?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO REIMAGINE PARTNERSHIPS.

AND WITH CANADA, WE DO HAVE A FREE TRADE AGREEMENT, CETA.

IT IS WORKING VERY WELL SINCE IT'S IN PLACE.

IT HAS AN INCREASE OF TRADE FROM THE EUROPEAN UNION TO CANADA OF 75%.

BUT WE CAN DO MUCH, MUCH MORE.

CANADA CANNOT BE MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN UNION BECAUSE OF GEOGRAPHY.

THAT'S THE ONLY REASON.

SO IN WHATEVER SECTOR WE WANT TO WORK AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TOGETHER AND HAVE AN ASSOCIATE MEMBER OF CANADA, BE IT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, BE IT HEALTH, BE IT QUANTUM OR BIOTECHNOLOGY, BUT ALSO THE TRADITIONAL INDUSTRIAL SECTORS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU, IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A FORMER ASSOCIATE MEMBER?

THAT'S BEEN THE DEBATE.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

>> WE'RE STARTING WITH THAT NOW WITH CANADA BECAUSE CANADA WANTED TO BE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE, THINKING ABOUT POTENTIAL MEMBERSHIP.

THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF OUR TREATY SAYS ONLY EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

BUT WE WANT TO BE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE.

AND IT'S NOT ONLY VALUE SPACE, IT'S ALSO INTEREST BASED.

>> YOU MENTIONED A FEW ISSUES WHICH IS SUPER CHALLENGING.

LET'S JUST TAKE AI.

PERHAPS THE MOST IMPORTANT SUMMIT THIS WEEK IS NOT HAPPENING HERE BUT IN WASHINGTON RIGHT NOW BETWEEN PRESIDENTS TRUMP AND XI ABOUT EVERYBODY, THE WORLD ORDER, BUT ALSO AI.

WHERE DO YOU AS THE EU STAND ON THE IDEA OF SLOWING IT DOWN, PACING IT, AS SEEMS TO BE THE TECHNICAL TERM TO TRY TO MAKE SURE HUMANS REMAIN A VITAL PART OF THIS ENDEAVOR.

>> WE HAVE IN THE EUROPEAN UNION ALREADY GUARDRAILS, REGULATION FOR ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE THE CHALLENGE IS THAT THE TECHNOLOGY IS EVOLVING SO FAST.

SO I THINK THE FRONTIER LABS HAVE TO TAKE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY.

THEY HAVE TO SHOW MORE TRANSPARENCY ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

ALSO, INCIDENTS THAT ARE NOT WANTED.

WE HAVE TO INVEST MORE IN AI SAFETY, AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A ROBUST VERIFICATION MECHANISM.

BUT WE SHOULD NOT FORGET THERE IS ALSO THE OPPORTUNITIES OF AI.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE AN AGREEMENT, OR WHATEVER THEY WANT TO CALL IT, BETWEEN PRESIDENT XI AND TRUMP, IE CHINA AND THE USA WHICH ARE THE LEADERS ON AI?

AND I KNOW THAT IN THE INDUSTRY A LOT OF OTHERS ARE SAYING OH, MY GOSH, HOW ARE WE GOING MAKE SURE THAT THIS REMAINS A POSITIVE THING AND NOT AN INDEPENDENT, YOU KNOW, HUMAN REPLACEMENT AND DANGEROUS.

DO YOU THINK IT'S NECESSARY FOR THOSE TWO BIG POWERS TO SET THE TONE?

>> WE WILL SEE WHAT THE RESULT WILL BE.

IT'S GOOD THAT THEY SPEAK ABOUT THE TOPIC.

FOR US, IT'S CRUCIAL THAT WE ARE HUMAN-CENTRIC.

IT'S THE HUMAN BEING THAT DECIDES.

TAKE AI AND HEALTH, FOR MAMMOGRAPHY, FOR EXAMPLE.

AI CAN BE VERY HELPFUL.

FOR EXAMPLE, TO DETECT EARLIER CANCER.

WHICH IS SAVING LIVES.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE A ROBOT TELLING ME WHETHER I HAVE CANCER OR NOT.

I WANT MY DOCTOR TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE BEST DATA OF THE WORLD BECAUSE OF AI.

SO THE HUMAN FACTOR IN IT IS SO IMPORTANT.

>> LET'S MOVE ON TO ANOTHER ISSUE ABOUT CANADA, URSULA, IN CHINA, WHICH IS VERY PERTINENT TO THE EU, AND THAT'S TRADE.

>> YEAH.

>> HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MANAGE THIS WHOLE ISSUE?

BECAUSE I THINK YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH UNREGULATED CHINESE TRADE WITH THE E SNU.

>> THE MOOD IS CHANGING IN THE EUROPEAN UNION BECAUSE OF THE IMBALANCE WE HAVE IN OUR TRADE RELATIONSHIP.

WE HAVE A TRADE DEFICIT OF ONE BILLION EUROS PER DAY.

>> PER DAY?

>> PER DAY.

AND THIS CANNOT GO ON.

WE CANNOT HAVE THE DEINDUSTRIALIZATION OF OUR INDUSTRIAL HEARTLAND BECAUSE CHINA IS DUMPING ITS OVERCAPACITY ON THE EUROPEAN MARKET.

SO WE HAVE NOW ESTABLISHED WITH A HIGH-LEVEL DIALOGUE ON THAT TOPIC.

BUT THE DIALOGUE HAS TO DELIVER.

IN PARALLEL, WE HAVE INSTRUMENTS THAT ENSURE THE ECONOMIC SECURITY OF THE EUROPEAN UNION.

WE WANT THE DIALOGUE TO BE SUCCESSFUL, BUT IF NECESSARY, WE HAVE THE INSTRUMENTS ON THE TABLE, OR WE CAN DEVELOP NEW ONES.

>> WHAT IS AN INSTRUMENT IN THIS CASE?

>> FOR EXAMPLE, LIMIT THE ACCESS OF CHINESE PRODUCTS THAT ARE HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED TO OUR MARKET.

WE LIKE COMPETITION, BUT WE WANT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

WE WANT IT UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS.

AND THE HEAVY SUBSIDIZING OF PRODUCTS THAT THEN COME TO THE MARKET AND DESTROY THE INDUSTRY ON THE EUROPEAN UNION SIDE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE ANYMORE.

>> TO BE FAIR, YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU WERE HAVING THE TRADE AGREEMENT WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, MAYBE LAST YEAR, I CAN'T RABIE THE EXACT DATE, AND YOUR KRIT --CRITICS SAY YOU HAD THIS INSTRUMENT THAT YOU NEVER PULL THE TRIGGER.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS A MISTAKE?

ARE YOU BACK TO BALANCED TRADE WITH THE UNITED STATES?

>> ON THE ON THE TEMPORARY, IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO BECAUSE TODAY EVERYBODY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THE TRADE DEAL HAS BROUGHT RELATIVE STABILITY.

THIS IS A VALUE IN ITSELF.

WE HAVE THE BEST TRADE AGREEMENT WORLDWIDE, 10%.

WE HAVE RELATIVE STABILITY THAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

THIS PROTECTED JOBS ON BOTH SIDES, MILLIONS OF JOBS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ATLANTIC.

SO FOR THE ECONOMY TO HAVE PREDICTABILITY AND STABILITY IS A HIGH VALUE.

>> THE FOREIGN POLICY LEADER IN EUROPE, KAYA CALLUS JUST SAID THE DEAL ON GREENLAND WHICH REALLY THREW A WRENCH INTO EUROPEAN AND ALLIANCE COHESION COULD HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT ALL THESE THREATS, WITHOUT THE THREAT OF TRUMP TAKING IT OVER OR INVADING OR WHATEVER.

HE'S GOT A SECURITY DEAL THAT EVERYBODY WAS WILLING TO LET HAPPEN IN THE BEGINNING.

DO YOU THINK HE JUST --WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

DID HE WASTE A LOT OF GOOD WILL WITH ALL THESE THREATS?

>> IT IS VERY GOOD --THE GREENLAND RESULT IS A VERY GOOD ONE.

WE REALLY SUPPORT THAT LET'S TAKE THE TOPIC OF SECURITY AND DEFENSE.

I THINK IT WAS NECESSARY AND IS NECESSARY FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION TO DEVELOP MORE INDEPENDENCE, TO INVEST HEAVILY IN OUR OWN DEFENSE POSTURE IS MY OPINION.

WE HAVE REALLY CHANGED THINGS IN THE LAST YEARS.

WE HAVE A NOW AROUND ABOUT 800 BILLION EUROS TO INVEST IN DEFENSE AND STEP UP THE DEFENSE POSTURE THAT IS A EUROPEAN WITHIN.

A TYPICAL EXAMPLE WHERE IT WAS NECESSARY TO HAVE MORE INDEPENDENCE.

>> OKAY, YOU DIDN'T DIRECTLY ANSWER MY QUESTION, BUT I'M GOING ASK YOU THIS, BECAUSE I SPOKE TO THE ESTONIAN FOREIGN MINISTER.

A LOT OF ESTONIANS I'M QUOTING BECAUSE THEY ARE OF COURSE ON THE FRONT LINE.

HE ACTUALLY TOLD ME YESTERDAY THAT EUROPE HAD BEEN A LAZY FAT OLD CAT NOT INVESTING IN ITS ENDEFENSE.

I SEE YOU SMILING.

DO YOU AGREE WITH HIM?

AND HE CREDITED PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR LIGHTING A FIRE UNDER YOU ALL AND GETTING YOU TO SPEND MORE.

>> SO I THINK IT'S -- WHAT I JUST SAID IT WAS TIME FOR US TO STEP UP AND GET OUR ACT TOGETHER IN DEFENSE.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE TAKE THE FRONTLINE MEMBER STATES THAT ARE UNDER PRESSURE FROM RUSSIA RIGHT NOW, WE SEE AN INCREASE OF HYBRID THREATS THAT ARE LESS AND LESS HYBRID AND LESS AND LESS THREATS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE LIFE SAFE EVENT WHERE WE HAD MILITARY GADGET MATERIEL, WHERE WE HAD RUSSIAN ON EUROPEAN SOIL.

SO WE REALLY HAVE TO STEP UP AND DECIDE TOGETHER HOW WE ARE DEALING WITH THIS.

THIS IS THE REASON WHY I'M WORKING ON AN EMERGENCY SECURITY PROTOCOL, WHICH IS ALIGNED WITH ARTICLE 4 IN NATO SO THAT WE CAN --ANY MEMBER STATE CAN TRIG THEIR MECHANISM, AND WE CAN FORMULATE A COMMON COHERENT RESPONSE THIS KIND OF NEW THREATS THAT ARE EMERGING.

>> DOES IT WORRY YOU A LITTLE BIT?

I'M NOT SURE YOU EVER SAID IT, BUT ALL THE NATO LEADERS USED TO SAY NOT ONE INCH, IE IF PUTIN PUTS ANY FOOT OR TOE ON NATO SOIL, THEN THE WHOLE ARTICLE 5 WILL START BEING TRIGGERED.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YOU'RE TELLING ME RUSSIAN OPERATIVES WERE IN GERMANY, WAGING A WAR, A DRONE WAR AGAINST A GERMAN TARGET IN LEIPZIG.

HOW COME NATO DIDN'T REACT?

>> THEREFORE WE NEED THE EMERGENCY SECURITY PROTOCOL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION.

>> WHICH IS?

>> EUROPEAN MEMBER STATES TOGETHER DECIDE ON HOW ARE WE DEALING WITH THIS, HOW DO WE ATTRIBUTE THIS, AND WHAT IS OUR COHERENT RESPONSE.

>> BUT NATO HAS A RESPONSE.

HOW CAN YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT RESPONSES?

>> WELL, I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION.

AND I THINK THE EUROPEAN UNION HAS TO STEP UP IN THIS POINT.

>> BY FIGHTING?

>> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO BE MORE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN SECURITY AND BE READY.

THIS IS THE REASON WHY WE INVEST SO MUCH IN DEFENSE, AND RIGHTLY SO.

WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND OURSELVES.

>> SO TRUMP DID A GOOD THING?

>> I THINK IT WAS SINCE MANY YEARS NECESSARY THAT WE HEAR THE WAKE-UP CALL, AND YOU SEE THE REACTION I KNOW OF THE EUROPEAN UNION MASSIVELY STEPPING UP.

>> AND WHO GAVE YOU THE WAKE-UP CALL?

>> LOOK, I REMEMBER, IT WAS ALREADY PRESIDENT OBAMA WHO RIGHTLY SO SAID YOU HAVE TO STEP UP YOUR OWN DEFENSE.

AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE THEATERS WE'RE IN, FOR EXAMPLE RUSSIA'S WAR AGAINST UKRAINE WAS FOR US THE NECESSARY WAKE-UP CALL THAT IT'S NOT ONLY ABOUT UKRAINE IN THIS WAR, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT OUR OWN SECURITY.

>> OKAY.

SO NOW THAT BRINGS ME TO A CHANGING LANDSCAPE IN EUROPE.

YOU'VE GOT MORE AND MORE FAR RIGHT PARTIES EITHER IN GOVERNMENT OR ASCENDING INTO GOVERNMENT.

YOU SEE WHAT THE AFD HAS ACHIEVED IN GERMANY.

NOW YOU SEE THE MOST POPULAR PARTY IN FRANCE, WHOSE ELECTION WILL BE THIS COMING MAY IS THE NATIONAL FRONT, OR WHATEVER THEY CALL THEMSELVES DAYS, BUT MARINE Le PEN.

WHO HAS AT LEAST VERBALLY EXPRESSES A CERTAIN HOSTILITY TO THE EU.

AND TODAY THERE HAS BEEN A DEBATE BETWEEN MARINE Le PEN, THE FAR LEFT AND THE CENTRIST PARTY CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT.

THIS IS WHAT SHE HAS SAID.

NO MORE FUNDING FOR UKRAINE.

WE CANNOT DO IT.

SHE SAID WE CAN TRAIN THEIR SOLDIERS AND THEIR MILITARY LEADERSHIP AND WE CAN PROVIDE THEM WITH MILITARY AID, BUT NO MORE FUNDING.

THAT'S A DIRECT THREAT TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT SUPPORTING UKRAINE.

>> ABSOLUTELY, IT IS A DIRECT THREAT.

AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH IN THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN, THE DIFFERENT PARTIES HAVE TO --HAVE TO MENTION VERY CLEARLY THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT IS AT RISK, BECAUSE UKRAINE IS SECURING OUR SAFETY AND SECURITY RIGHT NOW.

THEY'RE FIGHTING FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND WE SHOULD BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

WE ARE SUPPORTING UKRAINE BECAUSE IT'S NOT ONLY ABOUT UKRAINE, IT'S ALSO ABOUT OUR OWN SAFETY AND SECURITY.

>> BUT THEY DON'T SEEM TO GET IT, BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY PRO-RUSSIA.

THEY SAY IT.

AFD, WE WANT RUSSIA BACK IN THE FOLD.

WE WANT TO IMPORT THEIR GAS.

HERE IS WHAT MARINE Le PEN IS SAYING.

YOU HAD HOSTILITY FOR YEARS FROM THE HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER.

HE IS NO LONGER THERE.

>> AND THE GOOD PART IS IT SHOWS THINGS CAN BE TURN AROUND.

HUNGARY IS A TYPICAL EXAMPLE FOR THAT WHERE IT WAS A VERY CLEAR ALSO FROM THE HUNGARIAN OPPOSITION WHAT WAS GOING ON.

AND NOW HUNGARY IS BACK INTO THE CIRCLE OF THE EUROPEANS AGAIN, BACK INTO THE CIRCLE OF DEMOCRACIES.

>> MAYBE THE FRENCH WILL BE.

YOU'RE LOOKING AHEAD.

YOU MUST HAVE PLANS.

YOUR OWN MINISTERS HAVE SAID THAT WE HAVE TO LEARN TO WORK WITH MARINE Le PEN.

>> THE BEST -- THAT'S NOT MY QUOTE.

THE BEST PART IS TO DELIVER ON WHAT WE'RE WORKING.

THE DISCUSSION WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

>> YEAH.

>> IS THE BEST TO SHOW WHAT WE ARE DELIVERING FOR THE PEOPLE.

>> OKAY.

NOW WHAT ABOUT PRESIDENT PUTIN, WHO IT'S BEEN A GENERAL ARTICLE OF FAITH AMONGST YOU ALL THAT HE NEED NOT BE BROUGHT BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY OF NATIONS UNTIL HE FOLLOWS THE RULE OF INTERNATIONAL LAW REGARDING UKRAINE, UNTIL HE STOPS THE WAR.

AND YET PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS INVITED HIM TO THE G20 SUMMIT.

HOW DOES THAT HELP RESOLVE THIS WAR?

>> IF HE COMES, AND I'VE SAID THAT ALREADY YEARS AGO IN THE G20, I WOULD ALSO WELCOME THE POSSIBILITY TO SAY DIRECTLY TO HIM WHAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT HIS WAR, WHAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOR, AND WHAT HIS RESPONSIBILITY IS FOR THIS DIRECT CONFRONTATION IS ALSO BE SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ON.

DO.

>> YOU THINK, THOUGH, SERIOUSLY, HE IS IN THAT MOOD?

WHEN HE CAME TO ALASKA, AGAIN, OUT OF THE PURVIEW OF THE ICC, HE ESSENTIALLY APPEARED TO GET AWAY WITH --WITH ALL THOSE --I WAS GOING TO SAY GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

IT'S AN ACTUAL SAYING.

BUT HE SEEMED TO BE ON VERY GOOD STANDING.

HE WENT AWAY CONVINCING THE UNITED STATES THAT HE WAS A PARTNER IN GOOD FAITH.

AND OF COURSE WE'VE SEEN WHAT'S HATCHED SINCE.

ARE YOU WORRIED THAT IF HE COMES, HE WILL AGAIN BE ABLE TO AFFECT THE MOST POWERFUL NATION, IE THE UNITED STATES ABOUT THE WAY THIS WAR SHOULD END?

AND HE WANTS IT ON HIS TERMS.

>> LOOK, THE TRUTH OF FIVE YEARS AGO IS STILL TRUE TODAY.

IF UKRAINE STOPS FIGHTING, UKRAINE IS DOOMED.

IF RUSSIA STOPS FIGHTING, THEN THE WAR IS OVER.

>> YEAH.

>> AND WE SHOULD EMPHASIZE THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

AND AGAIN, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TELL HIM DIRECTLY FACE-TO-FACE.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO HIM?

PRETEND I'M PUTIN.

>> LET'S NOT GO INTO THAT.

THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS TO DISCUSS.

SO IF HE COMES, HE CAN BE PREPARED THAT HE WILL HAVE A LOT OF PUSHBACK.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HIS PEOPLE TELL HIM THE TRUTH.

SO THIS IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY TO TELL THEM LAST MONTH, 42,000 RUSSIAN SOLDIERS DIED OR WERE SERIOUSLY WOUNDED BECAUSE UKRAINE SO BRAVELY RESISTS.

THE FRONTLINE IS HOLDING IN UKRAINE.

IN 2024, RUSSIA HAD 19% OF UKRAINE OCCUPIED.

TODAY IT'S 20%.

SO THE FRONT LINE IS STABLE AND HOLDING.

OF COURSE, BOTH ARE NOT CAPABLE TO HIT IN THEIR REARS, BUT I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD SEE WHAT THE UKRAINIANS ARE ABLE, CAPABLE TO DO.

AND THIS IS, FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETHING WHICH WE SHOULD TELL PUTIN FACE-TO-FACE.

I DOUBT THAT HIS PEOPLE TELL HIM THAT.

>> OKAY.

AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY RIGHT HERE BASICALLY AGAIN WARNED THAT IF HE DOESN'T GET THE RIGHT WEAPONS, IE THE DEFENSIVE WEAPONS, IT COULD BE MAKE OR BREAK THIS WINTER.

WHAT ARE YOU ABLE TO TELL HIM?

BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU'RE RUNNING OUT OF THESE PATRIOTS BECAUSE OF THE WAR IN IRAN AND OTHER SUCH THINGS.

>> YES.

AND THIS IS THE REASON WE'RE HAPPILY INVESTING IN THAT.

YOU KNOW WE HAVE INVESTED BY NOW IN UKRAINE, SUPPORTED UKRAINE 225 BILLION EUROS.

THE LATEST WAS THE 90 BILLION EURO LOAN.

NOW THIS IS AN INVESTMENT INTO MILITARY CAPABILITIES NOT ONLY FROM THE PARTNERS, BUT ALSO IN UKRAINE COMPANIES BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN HOW INDUSTRIALS AND INGENIOUS THESE COMPANIES ARE IN RAPIDLY PRODUCING THE MOST SMARTEST AND ADVANCED, FOR EXAMPLE, DEFENSE CAPABILITIES.

>> AND A FINAL QUESTION ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> YEAH.

>> WHICH YOU HAVE MADE VERY CLEAR YOU WANT REGULATIONS AROUND CHILDREN'S ABILITY TO BE ONLINE AND TO HAVE ACCESS.

TELL ME ABOUT WHERE YOU ARE WITH THAT AND WHAT STILL NEEDS TO BE DONE.

>> IF WE LOOK AT OUR CHILDREN THAT I POST TO SOCIAL MEDIA, THEY POST THE MOST SOPHISTICATED TECHNOLOGIES.

THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE HAVE NOT BEEN DEVELOPED WITH THE WELL-BEING OF OUR CHILDREN IN MIND BUT WITH THE GOAL TO CAPTURE THEIR ATTENTION AND TO MONETIZE THEIR ATTENTION.

WE KNOW THE RESULTS.

THERE IS QUITE A BODY OF EVIDENCE NOW.

ANXIETY, LOSS OF SLEEP, DEPRESSION, SOMETIMES SUICIDE.

WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

AND THEREFORE, WE'VE PUT FORWARD THAT YOUNGER THAN 13 YEARS, NO SOCIAL MEDIA AT ALL.

YOUNGER THAN 15 YEARS, NO PERSONAL ACCOUNT.

AND IN THE TIME BETWEEN 13 AND 15, THE PARENTS OR THE GUARDIAN CAN OPEN A MINI ACCOUNT, LIMITED FEATURES, AND TIME LIMITED TO ONE HOUR A DAY.

BECAUSE I THINK IT IS NOT A QUESTION WHETHER OUR CHILDREN HAVE ACCESS TO SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT IS A QUESTION WHETHER AND HOW SOCIAL MEDIA HAS ACCESS TO OUR CHILDREN.

LAST POINT THAT IS FOR ME VERY IMPORTANT, WE HAVE A REVERSAL OF BURDEN OF PROOF.

TODAY WE HAVE TO FIND THE MECHANISMS WHERE SOCIAL MEDIA IS HARMING OUR CHILDREN.

WE REVERSE THIS BURDEN OF PROOF.

SOCIAL MEDIA, THE PLATFORMS, BIG TECH HAS TO TELL AND PROVE TO US THAT THEIR APPLICATIONS ARE SAFE FOR CHILDREN AND DO NOT HARM, SO THAT THEY TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT IS NECESSARY AND THAT WE CAN PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.

>> AND I THINK YOU'RE THE MOTHER OF FIVE?

>> I'M A MOTHER OF SEVEN.

>> SEVEN!

ON THAT NOTE, URSULA VON DER LEYEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> NOW MORE ON THIS MAJOR MOMENT BETWEEN CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES, THE SUPER POWERS.

PRESIDENT XI SAID IN A WRITTEN STATEMENT THAT CHINA AND THE U. S. SHOULD BE, QUOTE, PARTNERS RATHER THAN RIVALS.

BUT FROM ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO TRADE AND TO THE FATE OF TAIWAN, HOW TO HAVE A CONSTRUCTIVE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE TWO RIVAL POWERS.

WELL, KEVIN RUDD KNOWS XI JINPING AND CHINA BETTER THAN MAYBE ANY OTHER WESTERN LEADER.

AS AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER, HE MET XI MANY TIMES AND STUDIED HIM EXTENSIVELY.

HE ALSO SERVED AS AMBASSADOR TO THE U. S. AND IS NOW GLOBAL PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE ASIA SOCIETY.

HE JOINED ME FROM THERE EARLIER.

PRIME MINISTER KEVIN RUDD, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> SO THE BIG SUMMIT THAT EVERYBODY'S WATCHING, OF COURSE, IS NOT HAPPENING HERE, BUT IN WASHINGTON BETWEEN PRESIDENTS TRUMP AND ZI.

AND I THINK A LOT OF LEADERS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ARE PUTTING A HUGE AMOUNT OF STOCK INTO THIS BECAUSE OF THE INCREDIBLE CHALLENGES THAT ARE FACING US ALL.

ORRVILLE SHELL, ANOTHER GREAT EXPERT SAID DON'T EXPECT A NIXON GOES TO CHINA MOMENT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

IS THIS A POSSIBILITY OF A BIG MEETING BETWEEN THE TWO OR IS IT THE BEST COMMITTEE CAN EXPECT KEEPING THINGS OWN AN EVEN KEEL?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> IT'S PLAYING OUT ON TWO LEVELS, CHRISTIANE.

FIRST IN BEIJING, IF I READ ALL THE OFFICIAL COMMENTARY IN THE LAST 24, 48 HOURS, WHAT'S IT ABOUT?

IT'S ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE UNITED STATES IS NOW TREATING CHINA WITH AN EQUAL STATUS IN THE WORLD, THAT THIS RELATIONSHIP IS NOW BEING DRIVEN AT A LEADER HEAVY RAINFALL, WHICH THEY DESCRIBE AS THE COMPASS AND BALLAST STRATEGY FOR THE U. S.

-CHINA RELATIONSHIP, THAT WITHIN THAT, XI JINPING HAS SAID MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN AND THE GREAT REJUVENATION OF THE CHINESE NATION IS ALL MUTUALLY COMPATIBLE.

WE'D LIKE TO HAVE A CONSTRUCTIVE AND STRATEGICALLY REALIST RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU.

AND BY THE WAY, NEVER FORGET OUR FOUR FUNDAMENTAL RED LINES ABOUT TAIWAN, HUMAN RIGHTS, DEMOCRACY AND THE REST.

THAT'S THE CHINESE OFFICIAL NARRATIVE.

AND WHAT DO I PICK AS THE SUBTEXT FROM ALL THAT?

THEY WANT TO STABILIZE THE U. S.

-CHINA RELATIONSHIP.

AMERICAN COUNTERPOINT IN TERMS OF THEIR ASPIRATIONS IS ALSO I THINK ABOUT STABILIZATION, BUT WITH SOME COOR ASKS ON THE QUESTION OF CRITICAL MINERALS, RARE EARTHS, AND AGRICULTURAL TRADE.

>> SO THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE THE WAY YOU DESCRIBE WHAT'S COMING OUT OF CHINA IS VERY MUCH OF AN ESTABLISHED POWER WHO SEES THE REST OF THE WORLD ACTUALLY TAKING IT MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY, MAYBE EVEN MORE SERIOUSLY THAN IT TAKES THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW.

BUT THE TWO HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF STABILIZATION.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WHICH PRESIDENT TRUMP PLAYS UP ENOUGH IS ENOUGH TO STABILIZE, OR ARE THE ISSUES SO MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN THEY WERE IN THE PAST?

>> CHRISTIANE, THE RELATIONSHIP PERSONALLY BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND XI JINPING IS IMPORTANT.

THE CHINESE ACTUALLY HAVE A DOCTRINE CALL LEADER-LED DIPLOMACY WHEN IT COMES TO GREAT POWERS, AND THAT'S HOW THE CHINESE APPROACH IT.

BUT WHEN YOU GO TO BEIJING, AS I DID IN RECENT WEEKS, THEY ALSO ASK THIS QUESTION, CAN THE PERSONAL CHEMISTRY WHICH APPARENTLY EXISTS BETWEEN THE TWO LEADERS BE TRANSLATED INTO A NUTS AND BOLTS OF THE RELATIONSHIP?

AND THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THE BREAKDOWN INTO TRADE AND TARIFFS, THE BREAKDOWN INTO CRITICAL MINERALS AND RARE EARTHS, THE BREAKSDOWN IN TERMS OF CRITICAL TECHNOLOGIES, THAT'S CIRCUMSTANCES, ALSO THE BREAKDOWN NOW IN TERMS OF WHAT BOTH SIDES AGREE TO IF THEY CAN IN TERMS OF BILATERAL GUARDRAILS AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

SO THAT'S THE QUESTION BEING POSED WHERE THE PERSONAL CHEMISTRY IS TRANSLATED INTO THE MACHINERY OF THE RELATIONSHIP AND THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON THAT.

>> SO I WANT TO ASK YOU ACTUALLY FIRST ABOUT AI, BECAUSE IN THESE WEEKS LEADING UP TO THIS SUMMIT, THERE WAS SO MUCH, AND THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH FROM INSIDE THE AI TECH COMPANIES WARNING THE WORLD THAT ACTUALLY WE NEED TO AND THE LATEST WORD IS PACE OURSELVES.

I'M NOTE SURE THAT MUCH HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT IT HERE IN THE HALLS BEHIND ME, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE DEPENDING ELEMENT ON A CHINA-U.

S. DEAL ON THIS, OR SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT ON THIS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS REALISTIC, BECAUSE TRUMP SAYS LOOK, THE FEARS ARE A HOAX THAT WE NEED TO KEEP GOING BECAUSE WE NEED TO DOMINATE, AS WE ARE RIGHT NOYCHLT XI HAS SAID, OR AT LEAST THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT HAS SUGGESTED THAT THEY ARE ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE HARMFUL ASPECTS OF AI.

SO CAN WE AS A WORLD EXPECT THESE TWO LEADERS, THE LEADERS IN THIS FIELD TO COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF GUARDRAIL POLICY NOW?

>> I THINK THEY CAN COME UP WITH A MACHINERY THROUGH WHICH TO DEAL WITH THAT.

BUT WE SHOULD BE UNDER NO ILLUSIONS ABOUT THE FRAMEWORK IN WHICH THIS OCCURS.

NUMBER ONE, AS YOU JUST SAID, CHRISTIANE, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT WHO WINS THE RACE ON AI WINS, AND THEREFORE HE SEES THIS AS ELEMENTAL, FOUNDATIONAL WITHIN THE OVERALL FRAMEWORK OF STRATEGIC COMPETITION WITH CHINA.

THAT'S HIS VIEW AND PUBLICLY ARTICULATED AGAIN WITHIN THE LAST WEEK.

BUT YOU KNOW SOMETHING, THE CHINESE VIEW PERHAPS NOTE STATED AS STARKLY AS THAT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ENTRAILS OF CHINA'S STRATEGY, IT'S MUCH THE SAME.

SO THIS ACTUALLY IS A RACE WHETHER THE PEOPLE WISH TO RECOGNIZE AS SUCH OR NOT.

THE SECOND POINT, WITHIN THE RACE, THE UNITED STATES DESPITE ITS DEREGULATORY EMPHASIS FOR THE AI INDUSTRY WITHIN THE STATES IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS HAS BEGUN TO PUBLICLY RECOGNIZE THAT FRONTIER MODELS ARE INHERENTLY DANGEROUS IN TERMS OF THE TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO BREAK OUT, TO AUCH AUTONOMOUSLY, TO ATTACK PEOPLE'S INFRASTRUCTURE OR TO BE DEPLOYED BY ROAD STATES OR RONALD REAGAN -- ROGUE ACTORS.

THE CHINESE HAVE BEEN SLOWER TO RECOGNIZE THAT.

IF I READ IN THE LITERATURE THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS, THEY ARE BEGINNING TO COME AROUND TO A SIMILAR CONCLUSION.

SO WHERE DOES THIS GET TO?

ON THE QUESTION OF AI, AND LET'S CALL IT DANGEROUS AI, THAT IS AI AGENTS POTENTIALLY OUT OF CONTROL, THIS IS SUFFICIENTLY PURCHASE RECEIVED AS A THREAT TO BOTH COUNTRIES THAT THE GUARDRAILS' MECHANISM WHICH GOT BESSENT ARTICULATE ADDAI OR TWO AGO PROVIDES A PIECE OF GOVERNMENTAL MACHINERY TO WRESTLE THIS ONE TO THE GROUND.

THAT'S WHERE THE DEBATE IS UP TO AS OF TODAY.

>> OKAY.

AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE DANGERS.

AND I NOTICE WHEN YOU SAY READ, I KNOW THAT YOU READ AND SPEAK THE CHINESE LANGUAGE.

SO YOU KNOW A LOT OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

YOU ALSO KNOW IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, THIS DANGER HAS HAPPENED.

THERE HAS BEEN A HACK I THINK BY AN OPENAI AGENT INTO SOME OF THE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE FILES.

TELL US ABOUT IT.

WHY WASN'T IT ABLE TO BE STOPPED?

WHAT DOES THAT TELL US?

CAN GOVERNMENTS WAIT FOR THESE AGREEMENTS OR TECHNOLOGY TO HELP PRESERVE VITAL INSTITUTIONS AND DATABASES?

>> WHEN WE HAVE FRONTIER MODELS, AGENTS RELEASED INTO THE SYSTEM, THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT POTENTIALLY THE CYBER DEFENSES AROUND CRITICAL PIECES OF SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC INFRASTRUCTURE THEN BECOME VULNERABLE.

PARTICULARLY IF THEY'D NOT BEEN TESTED PRIOR TO THE EVENT, AND AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT, THE CYBER DEFENSES HAVING BEEN ADJUSTED, WHAT HAPPENED AS I UNDERSTAND IT WITH OPENAI AND ITS ATTACK ON VARIOUS ELEMENTS OF THE AUSTRALIAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WAS THE INADEQUATE TESTING OCCURRED.

BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM.

THERE WAS NO NOTIFICATION BY OPENAI EITHER OR THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT WHICH IS WHY THE AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER REACTED DIRECTLY, FIRMLY, AND IN NO QUALIFICATIONS, NO HOLDS BARRED DIRECTION YESTERDAY BECAUSE FRANKLY, THESE COMPANIES HAVE A DEEP RESPONSIBILITY TO THOSE USING THEIR SOFTWARE TO NOTIFY IF SOMETHING HAS BROKEN OUT.

MORE BROADLY, WHAT'S THIS ABOUT?

AS MODELS ARE RELEASED, YOU CANNOT SAFELY DO SO UNLESS THEY'VE PRIOR TO THE EVENT BEEN TESTED AGAINST EXISTING CYBER DEFENSES WITHIN THE SOCIAL, ECONOMIC, AND DARE I SAY MILITARY INFRASTRUCTURE OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.

IN PARTICULAR, THESE TWO LARGE POWERS.

THAT IS THE GUTS OF WHAT NOW NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED AND RESOLVED BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD WHO ARE CURRENTLY ALMOST UNIQUELY PRODUCING THESE FRONTIER MODELS.

>> AND KEVIN RUDD, WHAT ABOUT THE VERY OTHER MAJOR ISSUES YOU LISTED, TRADE, TARIFFS, RARE EARTHS, AND NOT TO MENTION TAIWAN AND THE WAR ON IRAN.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT YOU WOULD LOOK TO COMING OUT OF THIS SUMMIT ON ANY OF THOSE?

>> ON THE TRADE QUESTION, CAN I PUT IT IN THESE TERMS, CHRISTIANE.

THE CHINESE DEEP INTEREST IS TO ENSURE THROUGH THEIR NEW RELATIONSHIP OF CONSTRUCTIVE STRATEGIC STABILITY WITH WASHINGTON, AS THEY DESCRIBE IT, THAT'S THEIR FRAMING, THAT THERE ARE NO SURPRISES IN TERMS OF EITHER A SNAP BACK TO PREEXISTING TARIFF REGIMES AS IMPOSED BY THE UNITED STATES AGAINST CHINESE EXPORTS, LET ALONE THE IMPOSITION OF A NEW ROUND OF TARIFFS ON CHINA'S TRADE.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS THE CHINESE DOMESTIC ECONOMY IS NOT PERFORMING WELL.

ITS PRINCIPLE GROWTH ENGINE IS NET EX-PORTS.

AND IF THERE IS A FURTHER THREAT TO THAT BY THE UNITED STATES FLIPPING BACK TO PREVIOUS REGIMES OR ADDING TO THEM WHICH THE U. S. CAN DO OR EUROPEANS CAN DEFEND MANUFACTURING DOING THE SAME, THIS IS POTENTIALLY LETHAL TO THE CHINESE ECONOMIC MODEL.

THEREFORE, THE BIG INTEREST FROM BEIJING IS TO ENSURE NO FURTHER TARIFF INCREASES OCCUR.

FROM THE U. S. SIDE, THEIR QUID PRO QUO DEMAND IS THIS, NORMALIZE THE TRADE IN CRITICAL MINERALS AND RARE EARTHS.

THESE BANS EFFECTIVELY INTRODUCED BY CHINA ABOUT 6 TO 12 MONTHS AGO ARE STILL EFFECTIVELY IN FORCE IN RESPECT TO CHINA AND U. S. AND JAPAN.

AND FOR THIS SUMMIT TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND FOR THE U. S. TO CONCLUDE THAT IT WILL NOT FURTHER INCREASE TARIFFS AGAINST THE UNITED STATES, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP EXPECTS PRESIDENT XI TO BE ABLE TOE NORMALIZE THE TRADE IN CRITICAL MINERALS AND RARE EARTHS TO THE U.S., TO JAPAN, WHICH ARE ESSENTIAL TO SO MUCH THE MANUFACTURING ACTIVITY, ADVANCED MANUFACTURING ACTIVITY IN THOSE COUNTRIES.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE CORE OF THE TARIFF TRADE DEBATE WILL GO.

>> BUT YOU REMEMBER, IT WAS THE TRUMP TARIFFS THAT SPARKED A RETALIATORY MOVE BY XI ON THESE CRITICAL MINERALS, AND IT WORKED, BECAUSE THE ADMINISTRATION HERE PULLED BACK SOMEWHAT.

SO WHO HAS THE UPPER HAND IN THIS CRITICAL, YOU KNOW, QUID PRO QUO THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, BOTH SIDES BELIEVE THEY HAVE LEVERAGE ON THIS.

THE AMERICAN ARGUMENT IS AS FOLLOWS.

WE KNOW THAT OUR TARIFFS ARE POTENTIALLY DAMAGING TO THE CHINESE GROWTH MOLD.

DON'T PUSH US TOO FAR.

SECONDLY, THEY POINT TO THIS.

LAST YEAR, WHEN THE TWO LEADERS FIRST MET AT PUSAN IN SOUTH KOREA IN THE MARGINS OF THE APEX SUMMIT, THAT THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT IN TERMS OF A U. S. TARIFF PAUSE AGAINST CHINA IN EXCHANGE FOR THE NORMALIZATION OF CRITICAL MINERALS AND RARE EARTHS TRADE.

THE AMERICAN ARGUMENT THEREFORE IS THAT CHINA HAS NOT FULLY DELIVERED ON THIS.

THE CHINESE COUNTER PAINT IS THIS.

THAT'S ALL FINE AND DANDY, UNCLE SAM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE WANT YOU TO RELAX YOUR EXPORT CONTROLS ON THE MOST ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES TO CHINA, MOST PARTICULARLY, THE MOST ADVANCED SEMICONDUCTOR CHIPS.

SO THE HORSE TRADE IS IN FACT A TRIANGULAR ONE ABOUT TARIFF RATES IN AGGREGATE ON THE ONE HAND, CRITICAL MINERALS AND AIR EARTHS OVER HERE, AND THE THIRD ELEMENT OF THE TRIANGLE BEING CRITICAL TECHNOLOGIES AND EXPORT CONTROLS BY THE U. S. TO CHINA WHERE.

WILL IT LAND?

TO STABILIZE THE RELATIONSHIP, MY JUDGMENT IS THAT THE CHINESE SHOULD COMPROMISE ON THE QUESTION OF CRITICAL MINERALS AND RARE EARTHS.

THEY ALSO COULD ASSIST THE PRESIDENT SIGNIFICANTLY BY INCREASING AND NORMALIZING CHINA'S IMPORTATION OF U. S. AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS, INCLUDING IN THE LEAD UP TO THE MIDTERMS.

>> AND FINALLY, GIVEN THAT WAR IS AROUND US OBVIOUSLY AND THAT GIVEN THE U. S. WAR ON IRAN, CHINA APPEARS TO BE SITTING BACK AND ALLOWING THE U. S. TO SHOOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT.

BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN THE CONTEXT OF TAIWAN?

>> WELL, CHINA'S STRATEGY TOWARDS TAIWAN HAS NOT CHANGED.

IT WANTS TO TAKE TAIWAN EITHER VOLUNTARILY THROUGH A POLITICAL AGREEMENT OR IF ULTIMATELY THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN, THROUGH THE USE OF MILITARY FORCE.

CHINESE DOCTRINE IS VERY CLEAR ON THIS.

THE RESPONSE TO THAT FROM THE UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES FOR DECADES HAS BEEN DETERRENTS, DETERRENTS, DETERRENTS.

THAT IS IF CHINA WAS TO ACT MILITARILY, THAT COULD NOT SUCCEED.

WHERE DOES IT STAND?

YOU SAW SUBSEQUENT STATEMENTS BY THE PRESIDENT INDICATING THAT TAIWAN WAS IN FACT A VERY LONG WAY AWAY FROM AMERICA, BUT ON TOP OF THAT, CAN I SAY THE FOLLOWING, THAT THE REAL MEAT AND POTATOES OF THIS RIGHT NOW WILL THE PRESIDENT CONTINUE TO DEFER THE MOST RECENTLY AGREED $14 BILLION PACKAGE OF ARM SALES ALREADY RATIFIED BY THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS AND DELIVER THEM TO TAIWAN OR WILL, AS HE SAID BACK IN MAY, THIS BE HELD OUT AS SOME SORT OF LEVERAGE POINT TO BE USED BOTH AGAINST TAIPEI AND AGAINST BEIJING.

WHAT'S MY PUNT?

I THINK WE WON'T SEE THIS ARMS SALE EXECUTED TO TAIWAN THIS YEAR, BUT I WOULDN'T BE AT ALL SURPRISED THE UNITED STATES BEGINS RUMG ITS ARM SALES TO TAIWAN NEXT YEAR.

>> REALLY INTERESTING.

YOU PUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CONFLICT OVER OVER TAIWAN AT 2028 AT ROUGHLY ONE IN THREE.

THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TIME FOR.

BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR REALLY INCREDIBLE KNOWLEDGE AND PERSPECTIVE AS WE WATCH THIS SUMMIT, WHICH IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT MEETINGS IN A LONG, LONG TIME BETWEEN WORLD LEADERS.

KEVIN RUDD, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

> >> AND NOW, AS THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER DONORS SLASH FOREIGN AID, CONFLICTS FROM YEMEN TO SUDAN ARE DRIVING NEW HUMANITARIAN EMERGENCIES.

TJADA McKENNA LEADS PROSPER GLOBAL AND HAS JUST RETURNED FROM SYRIA, AND SHE TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN WHAT SHE AND HER TEAM HAVE SEEN.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

TJADA McKENNA, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THIS IS THE U. N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY WEEK, AND YOU'RE HERE IN NEW YORK, IN PART TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE CRISES THAT YOUR TEAMS ARE SEEING IN YEMEN.

JUST RECENTLY THE UNITED NATIONS OFFICE FOR THE COORDINATION OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS ESTIMATES THAT BECAUSE OF THE DECADE OF CONFLICT, THERE ARE MORE THAN 22 MILLION PEOPLE, OVER HALF THE POPULATION, THAT ARE IN NEED OF HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.

TELL ME, WHAT ARE YOUR TEAMS ON THE GROUND SEEING?

>> YEAH, SO IN RECENT DAYS, THE U. N. ESTIMATES ABOUT 125,000 PEOPLE ARE NEWLY DISPLACED, MEANING THEY'VE LEFT WHERE THEY WERE LIVING BECAUSE OF THE WAR AND MOVED TO OTHER PLACES.

AND OUR TEAMS THAT WERE ALREADY ON THE GROUND IN TAIZ, A MAJOR CITY WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING TO AND ALSO MIGRATING THROUGH, WE ARE SEEING THAT.

WE ARE SEEING A HUGE INFLUX OF PEOPLE ARRIVING DEHYDRATED, EXHAUSTED, HAVING ENDURED A DIFFICULT AND COSTLY JOURNEY LOOKING FOR SHELTER, FOOD, WATER, AND OTHER THINGS TO SUSTAIN THEIR FAMILIES AS THEY FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET TO SAFETY AND STAY SAFE.

>> WE SHOULD REMIND OUR AUDIENCE THAT THERE WAS A TRUCE BROKERED BY THE U. N. BACK IN 2022.

THINGS HAD GOTTEN A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

BUT WHAT'S HAPPENED RECENTLY TO MAKE THIS SO MUCH WORSE?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS A CONFLICT THAT HAS BEEN ONGOING FOR A WHILE.

THERE IS A RECENT ESCALATION.

SO IT'S JUST GOTTEN MUCH WORSE IN RECENT DAYS.

BUT WHAT WE'VE REALLY BEEN FOCUSED ON IS THE NEEDS, THE CRIPPLING NEEDS THAT WE NOW SEE IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAD BEEN UNDER THE SITUATION FOR QUITE A WHILE.

YEMEN, THE U. N. ESTIMATES KIND OF HOW MUCH IS NEEDED TO HELP IN THE SITUATION.

THIS CRISIS WAS ALREADY ONLY FUNDED AT 20%.

SO THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE UNDERFUNNELEDED, THAT MANY HAVE HAD TO MOVE ALREADY MULTIPLE TIMES, AND WHO HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH IMPACTS FROM RED SEAS, WITH FOOD AND FUEL COSTS AS WELL.

SO IT'S A DESIRE SITUATION.

>> WHAT HAPPENS WHEN 125,000 PEOPLE MOVE ALL AT ONCE?

THAT'S A SIZABLE POPULATION FOR ANYWHERE.

BUT THE PLACE THAT YOU ARE PROVIDING AID, KIND OF ILLUSTRATE THAT FOR ME.

>> YEAH.

AN EXAMPLE OF A FAMILY THAT WE WORKED WITH RECENTLY, IT'S A 67-YEAR-OLD GRANDMOTHER OF SEVEN GRANDCHILDREN.

AND SO AT SOME POINT, THAT MAKES THEIR LIVING ON LIVESTOCK, HAS A LOT OF ANIMALS, LIVESTOCK.

AND AT SOME POINT THEY HAD TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION IF THEY COULD STAY SAFE WHERE THEY WERE OR THEY SHOULD LEAVE.

OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF PEOPLE PROBABLY CHOSE TO LEAVE THE AREA AT THE SAME TIME.

AND SO SHE SOLD WHATEVER LIVESTOCK SHE COULD TO GET CASH FOR THAT JOURNEY, AND A LOT OF IT LEFT BEHIND.

THEY LEFT WITH THE CLOTHES ON THEIR BACK.

THEY'VE MADE THE JOURNEY.

ALONG THE WAY THEY'VE HAD TO FIND SHELTER.

THEIR MONEY HAS BEEN DEPLETED VERY QUICKLY.

AND YOU HAVE THESE SEVEN GRANDCHILDREN OF VARIOUS AGES DOING THIS ARDUOUS JOURNEY.

AND COSTS ARE EXECUTIVE WHEN THIS KIND OF MIGRATION IS HAPPENING.

MARKET FORCES PREVAIL.

THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF EVERYTHING ALONG THE WAY, AND THINGS ARE AT A PREMIUM.

SO THIS IS --IT'S REALLY A TOUGH SITUATION.

>> THE U. N. POPULATION FUND ESTIMATES THAT AMONG THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE DISPLACED NOW, THERE IS 2,000 PREGNANT WOMEN THAT ARE ALSO REFUGEES.

WHAT KIND OF HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE ARE THOSE PREGNANT WOMEN WALKING TO OR GETTING TO?

>> YEAH, AND OBVIOUSLY PREGNANT WOMEN, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE SEEING PEOPLE ARRIVE IS DEHYDRATION.

AND PREGNANT WOMEN REQUIRE MUCH MORE WATER THROUGHOUT THE DAY.

SO IT'S VERY DIRE.

THE HEALTH SYSTEMS IN TAIZ AND SURROUNDING AREAS WERE ALREADY VERY STRAINED.

THEY WERE PRIORITIZING EMERGENCY SURGERIES AND CRITICAL CARE.

THERE ARE NOT SPECIALISTS FOR A LOT OF THINGS.

THEY FACE BASIC SHORTAGES OF THINGS LIKE BLOODS AND OXYGEN.

ALSO, THE INCREASED FUEL COSTS HAVE ALSO IMPAIRED THEIR GENERATORS AND THEIR AMBULANCE SERVICES.

SO YOU HAVE PREGNANT WOMEN WHO ARE PROBABLY DEHYDRATED, NEED SOME MORE IMMEDIATE SUPPORT, AND GOING INTO A HEALTH SYSTEM THAT ALREADY IS VERY CRIPPLED.

SO IT'S JUST ANOTHER LAYER OF COMPLICATIONS.

I SHUDDER TO THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BE HAVING COMPLICATIONS IN A PREGNANCY OR NEED A HIGHER LEVEL OF NEED.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE RIPPLE EFFECT HERE THAT WE'RE USUALLY NOT SEEING ON THE NEWS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

MOST PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES ARE CONNECTING THE DOTS AND SAYING WELL, MY FUEL PRICES ARE UP.

BUT IN YEMEN, WHICH IMPORTS THE MAJORITY OF ITS FOOD, TELL ME WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE PRICE OF FOOD, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THE PRICE OF FUEL, AND WHAT'S THE EFFECT.

>> THIS REALLY --WE TALK ABOUT FUEL.

THIS IS VERY MUCH A FOOD CRISIS.

YEMEN IMPORTS THE VAST MAJORITY OF FOOD THAT FOOD COMES OVER ON THE SAME CONTAINERS.

THE OTHER COMPONENTS, THIS IS ALSO WHERE FERTILIZER COMES FROM.

A LOT OF THE FERTILIZER IN THE REGION HAS TO COME THROUGH THAT AREA.

SO FOR THE AGRICULTURAL PRODUCERS THAT ARE IN YEMEN FACING A PLANTING SEASON WHERE THEY HAVE A VERY SMALL WINDOW TOE MAKE A DECISION AND GET THINGS IN THE GROUND, LIKE A SHORTAGE OF FERTILIZER THAT DRIVES PRICES UP CAN AFFECT THE FOOD SUPPLY AVAILABLE LOCALLY FOR MONTHS AND YEARS TO COME.

IN TERMS OF THE AVERAGE POPULATION, THE FOOD COSTS, AS FOOD IS MORE AT A PREMIUM, THERE IS LESS OF IT AVAILABLE, THE PRICE OF THAT HAS RISEN.

AND ALSO IN PLACES LIKE YEMEN, THEY REQUIRE FUEL A LOT OF TIMES FOR GENERATORS.

IT'S NOT JUST FOR AUTOMOBILES OR GETTING AROUND.

IT'S FOR GENERATORS.

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE WHOLE FOOD SUPPLY SYSTEM, IT'S NOT ONLY LESS FOOD COMING IN, BUT THE COST TO TRANSPORT THAT FOOD AND TO GET IT AROUND THE COUNTRY IS NOW MORE EXPENSIVE.

AND ULTIMATELY, IT'S CONSUMERS.

IT'S THE AVERAGE CIVILIAN THAT IS JUST TRYING TO SURVIVE THAT IS PAYING THE PRICE.

THEY --THE PEOPLE IN THESE SITUATIONS PAY A MUCH HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME AND THEIR MONEY FOR FOOD THAN WE WOULD EVER IMAGINE DOING IN THE U. S. OR EUROPE.

>> YOU'RE HERE DURING A WEEK WHERE THERE ARE LITERALLY COUNTRIES ON STAGES THAT ARE IN DIFFERENT WAYS PLEDGING SUPPORT TO DIFFERENT TYPES OF CAUSES.

AND YOU'VE POINTED OUT THAT THE COMMITMENTS ARE NOT MAKING IT ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND.

WHEN YOU SAY 20% OF THE KIND OF FUNDING THAT IS NECESSARY, BREAK THAT DOWN FOR ME.

>> WHAT THAT HAS MEANT IN REALTIME OVER RECENT YEARS IS, YOU KNOW, IN TIMES WHERE WE SUPPLIED FOOD, WE MAY HAVE HAD TO CUT THE RATIONS TO FEED A FAMILY OF TWO VERSUS A FAMILY OF FOUR.

NOW OBVIOUSLY, IT'S STILL A FAMILY OF FOUR.

IN MANY CASES, IT'S A LARGER FAMILY.

AND SO THE LITTLE SUPPORT WAY WERE ABLE --WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE SOMETIMES, IT'S JUST MEANT LESS SUPPORT TO THE PEOPLE WHO URGENTLY NEED IT.

AND ESPECIALLY NOW WITH THE OTHER COMPLICATIONS OF FOOD.

IT ALSO MIGHT MEAN LESS SUPPORT TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE REMOTE AND FURTHER AWAY.

AND I JUST CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH THE RESILIENCE OF THE CIVILIANS IN YEMEN.

IT IS QUITE LOW.

THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH SEVERAL ROUNDS OF DISPLACEMENT.

ALREADY HAVE BEEN SUFFERING THE EFFECTS OF THIS WAR, AND NOW IT'S JUST DRAMATICALLY WORSENED IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

SO PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT LIKE TODAY AND HOW THEY STAY SAFE AND WORRIED ABOUT CONFLICT COMES FURTHER IN.

BUT THEY'RE ALSO THINKING ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THEIR TOMORROWS.

AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO FUND THE CRISIS, WE ALSO -- WE CAN'T JUST THINK ABOUT THE LIFE- SAVING MOMENT.

WE ALSO HAVE TO BE THINKING WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WEEK, NEXT MONTH, AND HOW DO PEOPLE REBUILD THEIR RESILIENCE OR GIRD UP TO TRY TO LIVE AS NORMAL A LIFE AS POSSIBLE.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DISPLACED MULTIPLE TIMES, IT ALSO MAKES ME WONDER ABOUT WHAT IS THE SENSE OF COMMUNITY HERE IF EVERYONE IS TRANSIENT, OR IF YOU CAN'T REALLY COUNT ON ANYBODY TO STICK AROUND, THE RELATIONSHIPS YOU MAKE, ALL OF THAT, A SENSE OF NOT JUST HOME, BUT A SENSE OF PLACE.

>> IT'S HEARTBREAKING.

ONE OF THE FAMILIES WE WORKED WITH RECENTLY, THEY HAD TO WALK 18 HOURS TO GET TO TAIZ.

BUT THE FAMILY THEY HAVE THAT IS BASED THERE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE STAYED WITH ALSO TO ALSO LEAVE THEMSELVES.

PEOPLE WHO ARE REMAINING BEHIND, THERE IS A STRONG COMMUNITY SPIRIT.

PEOPLE THAT REMAINED BEHIND ARE REALLY TRYING TO SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER AS OTHERS COME IN AND KEEP THEIR NETWORKS GOING.

BUT THESE ARE THINGS THAT FAMILIES SUFFER OVER TIME.

I WAS IN SUDAN A FEW MONTHS AGO.

AND YEARS INTO THE CIVIL WAR, AND PEOPLE ARE JUST STARTING TO REUNITE OR TRY TO GO BACK TO ONE PLACE.

SO THESE TIES WERE THERE, AND THEY'RE JUST DISRUPTING NORMAL LIFE FOR PEOPLE.

SO IT'S EVEN LESS OF A SAFETY NET AS WELL.

>> YOU ALSO TOOK A RECENT TRIP, A HUMANITARIAN TRIP TO SYRIA.

AND THERE ARE 5.

5 MILLION PEOPLE STILL IN THESE DIFFERENT DISPLACEMENT CAMPS.

WHAT IS THAT SOCIETY LIKE NOW?

>> SO AFTER 14 YEARS OF CIVIL WAR, I WAS ABLE --I DID A BIT OF A ROAD TRIP FROM ALEPPO TO DAMASCUS.

AND REALLY, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A COUNTRY OF RUBBLE, PARTICULARLY OUTSIDE OF DAMASCUS.

SO MUCH DAMAGE AND DESTRUCTION.

I HEARD OF FAMILIES, A PARTICIPANT WAS TELLING ME THAT HER HOUSE WAS ONE OF THE LEVELS WAS RAZED.

THERE IS ONE ROOM THAT HAS A FUNCTIONING WINDOW.

SO THEIR FAMILY OF SIX HAS COLLAPSED INTO THIS ONE ROOM.

AND WE SEE THAT.

AS I SAW BUILDINGS THAT WERE DESTROYED, YOU'D SEE WATER TANKS ON THE TOP OF THE BUILDINGS.

PEOPLE ARE STILL TRYING TO LIVE IN THOSE AREAS.

SO THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS ALSO JUST SEVERELY DAMAGED.

WE'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK TRYING TO REBUILD THE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GO BACK TO THEIR COMMUNITIES, BUT LOT OF THE BASIS SYSTEMS HAVE BEEN DAMAGED AND DESTROYED.

AND SO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE LIFE AGAIN.

BUT IN THAT SITUATION, PEOPLE OF SYRIA ARE VERY HOPEFUL.

PEOPLE ARE GOING BACK TO SYRIA FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

THEY'RE GOING BACK TO SEE WHAT IS LEFT AND TRYING TO REALLY PICK UP AND REBUILD.

SO THERE IS THIS MOMENT WHERE THEY NEED BOTH INVESTMENT FOR THE FUTURE, BUT YOU STILL HAVE THIS LARGE POPULATION OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY -- WHO STILL RELY VERY MUCH ON HUMANITARIAN SUPPORT FOR BASIC SERVICES BECAUSE THEY'RE LACKING RIGHT NOW.

>> PROSPER GLOBAL ESTIMATES WHAT, 16 MILLION PEOPLE, NEARLY 70% OF THE POPULATION HAS SOME SORT OF HUMANITARIAN NEEDS ASSISTANCE.

IT'S HARD FOR SOMEONE TO TAKE A BIG ABSTRACT NUMBER LIKE THAT AND PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE.

ARE WE JUST TALKING ABOUT 7 OUT OF 10 PEOPLE THAT ARE IN SYRIA TODAY DON'T HAVE THE MEANS TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES, HAVE A JOB, KEEP THEIR FAMILIES SAFE.

>> IN TERMS OF LIKE INDIVIDUALS AND WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE, A WOMAN, OLA, I MET, HER HUSBAND WAS INJURED IN THE CONFLICT.

HE USED TO BE THE ONE THAT DID THE WORK.

SO NOW SHE HAS A SMALL PLOT OF LAND, AND SHE HAS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK.

AND SO EVEN THE PROVISION OF SEEDS AND THINGS TO HELP HER GET STARTED TO GET GOING AGAIN HAVE THEN ALLOWED HER ON HER OWN TO DO MORE.

FOR SOME PEOPLE, IT'S GETTING ACCESS TO CLEAN WATER EVERY DAY THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.

SO PEOPLE, WHEN I TALK TO THEM, WE'RE LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO WORK, TO TRADE, TO REALLY GAIN OUR LIVELIHOODS BACK AND FOR NORMAL LIFE TO RESUME.

BUT FOR SOME HOUSEHOLDS IT'S MUCH WORSE.

THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO HAVE A LIVELIHOOD OR HAVING DIFFICULTIES REBOUNDING.

SO THEY STILL NEED BASIC THINGS LIKE FOOD AND WATER, AND MEDICAL SERVICES ARE VERY SCARCE IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS AS WELL.

>> AND WHERE ARE THE SOURCES OF THOSE INVESTMENT?

IS IT FROM INTERNATIONAL AID ORGANIZATIONS?

IS IT ECONOMIC INSTITUTIONS, THE WORLD BANK, THE U.N.?

>> WE REALLY NEED GOVERNMENTS TO STEP UP FOR THE LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY.

SYRIA HAS BEEN ABLE TO STRIKE SOME MODEST ARRANGEMENTS WITH THE WORLD BANK, BUT IT IS REALLY IS --PRIVATE CAPITAL IS GREAT.

I THINK THAT NEEDS TO COME IN STRONG FORCE.

THAT'S INVESTORS, DIASPORA PEOPLE COMING BACK AND INVESTING.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY.

FOR THE HUMANITARIAN NEEDS, FOR THE PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF SUPPORT SYSTEM OR IN MORE REMOTE AREAS, IT IS LIKE WORKING THE INGO AND LOCAL NGOs ARE TRYING TO SUPPORT.

AND THAT'S FUNDING THAT THE LARGE AMOUNTS NEED TO COME FROM WORLD BANK AND DONORS LIKE THE U. S. OR EUROPE.

>> WE TALK ABOUT YEMEN AND YOUR RECENT TRIP TO SYRIA.

BUT I'D BE REMISS IN NOT MENTIONING GAZA ALSO SORT OF IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND ACCORDING TO THE U.N., 1.9 MILLION PALESTINIANS IN GAZA, OR ABOUT 90% OF THE POPULATION HAVE BEEN DISPLACED DURING THAT WAR.

FROM THE TEAMS YOU HAVE IN THE REGION, WHAT IS THE MOST ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENT FOR CIVILIANS THERE RIGHT NOW?

>> WHAT WE'RE SEEING, THE SEWAGE SYSTEM HAS BEEN COMPLETELY DESTROYED.

THERE IS A REAL LACK OF ACCESS TO CLEAN WATER, AND YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF LIKE SKIN DISEASES AND OTHER INFECTIONS.

AND THE SEWAGE SYSTEM HAS BEEN A REAL PROBLEM.

AND YOU STILL HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE CRAMMED INTO VERY SMALL AREAS WITH INADEQUATE HOUSING.

SO VERY SUBJECT TO WEATHER CONDITIONS.

WE HAVE REALLY BEEN FOCUSED ON GETTING CLEAN WATER TO PEOPLE AS WELL AS PROVIDING DIRECT ASSISTANCE FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO PRIORITIZE WHERE THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY.

THERE'S STILL A LOT OF BASIC NEEDS ARE BEING UNMET.

AT THE SAME TIME IN GAZA, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO WORK, WE HAVE A PROGRAM CALLED GAZA SKY GEEKS WHERE FOR YEARS WE'VE BEEN TRAINING PEOPLE ON REMOTE WORK.

WE'VE ALSO BEEN ABLE TO OFFER SOME COWORKING SPACES WITH ELECTRICITY AND WIFI ACCESS THAT PEOPLE WHO CAN TRY TO GO BACK TO A NORMAL LIFE.

BUT IT IS VERY MUCH STILL A POPULATION THAT IS CRAMMED INTO A VERY SMALL AREA.

MOST OF THE HOUSING SUPPLY HAS BEEN DESTROYED AND THE LACK OF SEWAGE IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR HEALTH AND SURVIVAL.

>> YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS WORK FOR A WHILE.

AND I WONDER IF YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS SOME SORT OF A REAL LIFE VERSION OF THE HUNGER GAMES WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMPETING TO TRY TO GET THE ATTENTION OF FOLKS AROUND THE PLANET IN SAYING LOOK, LOOK AT ANY CRISIS, LOOK AT HOW BAD THIS IS, PLEASE HELP.

>> IT IS A VERY DARK TIME IN THE WORLD.

AND I THINK THE NATURE OF WARFARE, I THINK IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, WE'VE ALLOWED --WE'VE ALLOWED THE NATURE OF WARFARE TO BE MUCH MORE DANGEROUS AND DEADLY TO CIVILIANS.

A LOT MORE ATTACKS ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE ENERGY, POWER PLANTS, PORTS, HOSPITALS, THINGS THAT CIVILIANS NEED TO SURVIVE.

LIKE WE'VE SEEN A PROLIFERATION OF THAT.

AND IT IS, YOU KNOW, I ALMOST HATE TO MENTION HOW BIG THE NUMBERS ARE.

I HAVE TO COMMUTE THERE IS THIS LARGE NEED.

BUT BEHIND THOSE NUMBERS ARE INDIVIDUALS WITH GREAT INDIVIDUAL STORIES.

I'VE MET THEM.

I'VE MET THESE PEOPLE AND THEY'RE LIKE YOU AND ME.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, WE ALSO ARE SEEING CLIMATE-RELATED DISASTERS LIKE THE LANDSLIDE IN NEPAL OR THE EARTHQUAKE IN VENEZUELA.

AND SO THESE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS TRYING TO MAKE A WAY FOR THEMSELVES.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO --WITHIN THE BIGGER PICTURE, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT AND REALLY PRIORITIZE MAKING THINGS SAFE FOR CIVILIANS WHERE CIVILIANS AREN'T SUFFERING COLLECTIVELY BECAUSE OF CONFLICTS BETWEEN PARTIES THAT THEY'RE NOT A PARTY TO.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST SET OF YEARS WHERE THE UNITED STATES HAS WITHDRAWN A LOT OF ITS SUPPORT, OR AT LEAST WITHHELD A LOT OF THE PAYMENTS FOR THE UNITED NATIONS.

AND I WONDER IN THE AID COMMUNITY, ARE YOU SEEING OTHER COUNTRIES, OTHER INSTITUTIONS FILL THE GAP RIGHT NOW?

>> THE REALITY IS THAT THE U. S. WAS BY FAR THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTOR TO THESE EFFORTS.

AND WE HAVE --AND FOLLOWING THE U.S., YOU SAW SOME EUROPEAN NATION.

AND SO THE U.S.

HAS WITHDRAWN PRECIPITOUSLY IN A VERY LARGE AMOUNT.

AND THEN EUROPEAN NATIONS NOW FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO SPEND MORE ON THEIR OWN DEFENSES.

SO THEY'VE PULLED BACK.

THE GULF STATES WERE PROVIDING A LOT OF SUPPORT TO SOME OF THESE COUNTRIES LIKE YEMEN AND GAZA.

THEY ALSO ARE NOW --I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S THE OUTLOOK FOR THEIR FUNDING IS, BUT THEY'RE ALSO NOW THINKING ABOUT THEIR OWN DEFENSES.

AND SO BUT WITH THE U. S. NUMBER BEING SO BIG, THERE IS NO WAY TO FILL THAT GAP.

I THINK FOUNDATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS HAVE GIVEN.

THE REALITY IS THERE WILL BE PEOPLE THAT GET LEFT BEHIND THAT WEREN'T LEFT BEHIND BEFORE.

AND WE AS A HUMANITARIAN COMMUNITY ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO MORE WITH LESS.

AND WE'RE JUST NOT THERE YET.

THE NEEDS ARE TOO HIGH, AND THEY KEEP GROWING AS NEW CONFLICTS EMERGE.

>> THE CEO OF PROSPER GLOBAL, TJADA D'OYEN McKENNA, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>> HUMANITARIANISM UNDER STRESS.

AND FINALLY, IT'S ALSO CLIMATE WEEK HERE IN NEW YORK.

BUT THIS MASSIVE CRISIS BARELY GOT A LOOK IN WITH GEOPOLITICS AND AI CROWDING THE AGENDA.

HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD IN BORNEO, SOME ARE NOT WAITING FOR THE DIPLOMATS TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER.

THEY'RE MOMS ON MOTOR BIKES, AND THEY CALL THEMSELVES THE POWER OF MAMA.

146 WOMEN FROM TEN VILLAGES IN THE AREA TRAIN TO FIGHT FIRES AND FLY SURVEILLANCE DRONES.

AND THIS YEAR IS A ROUGH ONE.

AS A SUPER EL NINO DRIES OUT THE REGION.

ONE VILLAGE HASN'T SEEN RAIN SINCE LATE JUNE.

>> Translator: I FELT I FINALLY HAD A PLATFORM TO VOICE THE CONCERNS I HAD CARRIED FOR SO LONG.

IT CAME FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE THESE FORCES AND LAND FIRES HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

>> AS THE SPEECHES IN NEW YORK WRAP UP TODAY, THIS BRAVE BAND OF SISTERS WILL STILL BE OUT ON PATROL ON THE FRONT LINE.

> >> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON EVERY NIGHT ON THIS SHOW, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM NEW YORK.