- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you, thank you.

- New perspectives on the Memphis-Shelby County Schools board, tonight, on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I'm joined tonight by three of the four newly elected members of the Memphis-Shelby County Schools board.

They are Sable Otey, who represents District 5.

Thank you for being here.

- No problem, thank you.

- Tamarques Porter represents District 4.

Thank you for being here.

- Thanks for having me.

- Natalie McKinney represents District 2.

Thank you for being here again in your new role.

- Thank you.

- And Laura Testino is a reporter with The Daily Memphian.

We'll start with a question for the group here, and maybe I'll start with you, Natalie.

From the outside looking in, and I hear this from people, there's just so much going on at the school system right now with, you know, changes.

The new superintendent's, what, 120 days in.

There were a reduction of something like a thousand positions, started the year with, you know, hundreds of teacher shortages.

There's talk of school closures and new...

There's just so much going on.

And again, my question for you and for everyone will be, is this a sign of things are not good at Memphis-Shelby County Schools?

Or is this just a byproduct of change with the new administration, or some of both?

- I think it's, right now, two days in.

- Yeah.

- I can say the latter of the two, which is it's change and things are happening.

And when you have change, things may fall through the cracks, or it's just gonna be different, right?

So I think we need to really focus on how we can support the superintendent and how as a board we can build that strategic plan and vision so that we can make sure we tailor any of the remaining changes to be laser-focused on making sure we are grounded in student growth and achievement.

- Let me turn to you, Tamarques.

I mean, and I'll also say, you know, was your desire in running for this position, one of "I'm concerned about where the schools are," or "I like where the schools are.

I just, I wanna have a say in it."

And again, all the change that's going on with the new superintendent, is that a sign of trouble or of necessary change?

- I think it's all of it.

And so me wanting to run for school board, I definitely wanted to have a seat at the table to be in a decision-making process for our children.

But like my colleague said, you know, once you get new leadership, new changes.

So sometimes it's kind of hard to adjust.

But definitely, we have to set the goals.

First of all, we have to set the goals for the school board.

You know, we have specific goals that we need to meet and that we have to set, and just set the overall vision for the school district.

So yes, we wanna support the superintendent, and so our job is to have a great closely working relationship with her.

And so just set a vision for the district and going forward, and try to get more people to follow on that plan.

- All right, and same question to you, Sable.

I mean, again, and let's frame it around.

You are just newly elected.

- Yes.

- Newly appointed, sworn in, I should say.

And what drove you to do this and what did you see in the school system that you wanted to change, improve, support?

- Absolutely.

Of course, I graduated from the mighty East High School, so I went to school here.

My kids currently go to school within the district.

There are a lot of things that I saw that I wanted to take part in, especially with me having three younger boys.

And so we definitely need to make sure that we're focused on academic achievement.

That's our biggest gap that we actually have.

We're focused on workforce development.

Our children are our future.

So I wanted to be able to take part in that.

And so to relate back to your question, our colleagues said, they, they've both said it, just learning our roles, figuring out how we can build that working relationship with the superintendent so that we can make sure we're bringing forth our vision and our goals to fruition for the betterment of our community and our students.

- All right, let me bring Laura in.

- Sure, as one of the final actions of the outgoing board, a resolution was passed that gives a proposed timeline for evaluating Superintendent Marie Faegins.

As part of that, there was a proposal to have a strategic plan developed for the district as soon as the end of September.

I would like to hear from each of you about how you will recommend, what recommendations you will make for this strategic plan, and what you hope to see.

Tamarques, I'll start with you.

- Well, one of the things I would like to see as far as where is our academic strategic plan, where are we at the end of her term, where are we as far as literacy?

And that's the big thing.

That's the big thing we talk about in the city a lot is the literacy.

So what gains have we made as far as, you know, just dealing with literacy.

And another thing I would like to see is culture and climate.

You know, what is the morale of the district?

What is the morale of the employees?

And so just kind of getting feedback from them.

Yeah, there's definitely some things that we can input into the strategic plan.

And so yeah, just literacy, culture and climate is really my biggest thing right now, and deferred maintenance as well.

Yeah, so just definitely wanna see where we are, from how do we get here to how do we finish?

- Okay, Sable, I'll pick... - And just to echo what Tamarques said, I'm a business owner, so we do everything based off of data.

So I think it's fair to say, look at the data.

We have our orientation coming up in a couple days, so I'm excited to see exactly where we are as a district, where my schools are in my district.

As well, I've been working on building those relationships and those bridges with my principals, the teachers, the kids even.

So that's exciting.

But definitely making sure we're focusing on academic achievement, seeing how we can be supportive to our schools because, again, our children are our future.

So making sure we're making the best decisions and it's focused on data.

So I think that'll be, outside of what Tamarques said.

- Thank you.

- Well, my colleagues, I think I can incorporate what they have said, but the way that I see a strategic plan is that we're looking at a comprehensive strategic plan that deals with academics, operations, fiscal sustainability, and infrastructure.

And thinking about what are the data points that we need to be concerned about in reaching those things.

And first of all, what are our goals, right?

- Right.

- And having benchmarks and timelines to ensure that we are meeting those goals.

By the end of September, that's very lofty, and I appreciate our board, those who were going out, giving us that challenge.

What I think that we need to do is take the time to figure out what that strategic plan is so that we are very clear, not only as a board, but the superintendent, but also the community at large are very clear about what pathway are we taking to get to these things.

So those, I think that we need to take our time to do that.

I'm not saying a year.

I'm saying in September will probably not be...

I do want to go to bed.

[all laughs] - I should note that we're gonna have...

Superintendent Marie Faegins, the new superintendent, is scheduled to come on the show next week and we'll talk...

Many of these questions, we'll talk to her about.

One thing that is interesting over some 15 years we've been doing the show and covering education, talking to many superintendents and school board members over that time, is this sense of the long-term planning and the long-term goals and the immediacy of, as everyone who has or has had children or been a child knows in school every day begins to count every week and every year.

And those long-term planning, what happens to the kids now?

And one of those things that's happening right now nationally and locally and in the Memphis-Shelby County School is school delinquency or what we used to call truancy.

But when kids who missed 18 or more days...

The number for the 2022-2023 school year was 10,000 students who'd missed 18 or more days without excuse.

That was something like 30% of students, excuse me, and that was up from 18% before the pandemic 2018, 2019.

Again, it is not just to pick on Memphis-Shelby County Schools, it's a statewide problem, a national problem.

There's been a lot written about the reasons for it.

I'll start with you, Sable, well, I mean, as a board member, and again, you're not pulling the levers of the school system.

- Right.

- But you have one, maybe it's now two employees, but one key employee, as a school board, which is superintendent.

What do you want them to do soon about this, these absences, which I think everyone agrees, is just a terrible to be happening to these kids who aren't in school, who maybe are at best not learning, at worse involved with activities that none of us wanna see them involved in.

- Right, I do think getting out in the community, speaking with those teachers, speaking with those parents, and the principals, and the kids to see what's going on?

How can we get the kids to come to school?

I've personally done that.

I've personally spoke with the children.

I've personally been in the community.

We have to figure out how we can make school engaging and fun.

That goes back to culture and climate, right?

And so are we doing that to ensure that the kids are excited?

And the schools that I've...

I've been to every school in my district, the principals are amazing.

They're really engaging, they're hardworking.

The teachers are amazing.

And I think if we just put together a plan, we consistently work with those kids.

And then it's a community, you guys will hear me say this a lot.

It's gonna take a village.

It's gonna take everyone in the community, the community centers, you know, police force, everyone to come together to figure out what is it that we can actually do to actually help make this change in our community, to get our kids engaged and excited about school again.

- Tamarques, same thing, that delinquency issue is a huge one nationally and locally.

- So as far as the superintendent, I do like the energy that she's coming with.

- Yeah.

- I think she brought great energy to the city, but I'm gonna put this on the City Council, County Commission, and the school board as well.

It takes all of us to get out into the community and ask parents and ask teachers as well, "Well, why are you not in school?"

You know, "How can we motivate you to get to school?"

Because schools, we know when children are in school, now they can learn.

Now learning takes place, not necessarily in the school building, but, you know, sometimes school can be a safe haven for children.

You know, and so we have to make sure our schools are more safer for children.

And lobby and advocate for our communities to be more safer.

But as far as superintendent, yeah, I'd definitely like to see her...

I do like the doorknocking that she did, the canvassing just trying to locate those students.

And again, that's just what we have to do as a city.

- Natalie.

- So I wanna make sure that we make a distinction for our constituency and for the public, in general, between chronic absenteeism and truancy.

- Yeah, please do.

- So chronic absenteeism, it's the stat that you gave, the 18 days or more.

And that can be for any reason.

That could be because they're ill. That could be because of the parent who's keeping 'em out for school for whatever reason.

Truancy is where, I think, student is intentionally not going to school and remaining at, so I want us to make sure that... - Sure.

- So those might be two different things, but with some of the same root causes.

So this is where, again, as a school system, we have to remember that we're one system of many.

And both of my colleagues talk about the City Council, the County Commission, but I would challenge our transportation system, our health system, our public safety system, MLGW, all of these different, and our workforce system.

I would challenge all of us to think how do we build a plan that is interconnected and aligned to ensure that, one, we're getting to the root cause.

So we're asking the people that are impacted, which are the youth, we need to ask them.

Two, we're thinking about asking our teachers as well, because I don't know about the rest of y'all, but we're still operating off of a Industrial Age education curriculum and style.

Our kids, they're babies and got screens in front of them and we're still trying to stand in front of them and lecture at a desk.

So we have to think about how do we innovate.

So I'm thinking, let's start with the impacted folks and I think that's our youth.

- And before I go to Laura, let me follow up with you and say, where do parent, in terms of all those parts of the... You all mentioned parts of the system and reasons and things that have to come together.

Parents are obviously a huge part of that.

- Right, and so it's this big, it's this big...

The dog chasing the tail kind of thing, the catch-22.

So if I'm a parent now and if I'm part of the school system, the superintendent, teachers, school leaders, school board, we want parents to be involved.

All the data says that things start at home, but if they can't be home, it's not because they don't want to be at home.

Some of them are working two, three jobs to make sure that they can have a roof and have a home.

And so if you have to work two or three jobs, you have to ask yourself, why are they working two or three jobs?

They're working two or three jobs because they're not getting local living wages.

So that's where the business community...

So people have to see where all of the pieces play together.

And we don't have, the school district, we don't have the expertise, nor do we have the resources to do all of that.

- Yeah, let me bring in Laura again.

- Sure, and I think, you know, some people may argue that the learning experience that students have while they're in the physical building and what does the physical building look like is a big part of whether or not you want to be there.

If the district moves forward with what's been a bit of a long anticipated plan for its school buildings, it is very likely that in your terms of four years, you will have to vote to close schools.

Tell people who are listening, how will you involve the public?

What will you, from your board seats, do to ensure that people know what is coming and feel like their voices are included in the plans that the district is making for these decisions to close, consolidate, or otherwise transition school buildings for other uses.

Natalie, we can start with you.

- So one of the things that we are governed by is policy.

There's a very clear policy called the real estate policy that gives a very clear outline of how we do that.

I will take a point of personal privilege.

I worked with the former Memphis-Shelby County Schools in something called Reform Governance in Action, where we worked, the policy office along with the board and the superintendent, developed a robust process for that in terms of not only repurposing buildings, but how do we include community in a authentic, meaningful way.

And that is the work that we're going to have to do.

We have to be transparent.

And one of the things that I'm interested in looking at is...

I don't even know what's on the sheet yet and what the criteria was used.

We have to be very, very transparent about that.

And in doing that, we have to ensure that we are working with the public and including them in every step of the way.

- And before we go to you Sable, Natalie, can you just, for our readers, give a quick overview of what the current policy requires?

- The current policy requires that you at least have two, I believe, it's two community meetings at each of the schools that you're planning on closing.

There are some administrative rules and regulations at one point that gave even more of a robust process.

You have to have a plan, you have to work with the community, the school leaders, and teachers to develop a plan as to what's gonna happen to the youth and where they're gonna go.

So I'm very excited about the process of resurrecting that.

And if we have to, actually, if we have to revise it, let's revise it so that we do the work in a way that is transparent, fair, and equitable.

- And as we go to you Sable and Tamarques, both of your districts will be facing definite closures in the Germantown schools, and Sable for you and the potential that's been greatly discussed about the replacement Cordova school.

So can you talk with each of us about how you... Or each of you talk with us about how you will balance these closer conversations with also taking a look at the new school buildings that might be on the horizon?

- Absolutely, so like Ms. Natalie said, definitely informing the community.

If you talk to a lot of the constituents in the community, it's a lot that we think they know, but they don't know.

And so I'm making a point when I'm answering questions or asking questions, explaining why I'm asking or explaining why this is the answer because we don't know.

And as a parent, you know, having children that go to school within the district, a couple of years ago there was a lot of things that I didn't.

I'm like, "Oh, we had that available."

So holding those town hall meetings, that's part of policy anyways, to make sure that the community's being informed, giving them the opportunity to have a voice and have them to ask questions because we don't know what they're thinking.

We don't know what they understand or, you know, don't understand.

We don't know any of those things.

And just giving them the option to, giving them the opportunity to have a voice and making them feel important, 'cause they are.

And it's going to...

Without them, you know, there's no schools.

Without the children, we don't have schools.

So I think that, and just getting at the data.

You're gonna hear me say that a lot because you're not supposed to move in any direction without data, right?

If we do, it'll be complete chaos.

So just making sure we're aware of what's going on, we have the data to support that.

And then we can explain if that does have to happen, we have to make it make sense to them and explain to 'em like, "Hey, this is why... "you know, this is why we really need to do this "and we really need your support, "but what are your thoughts?

"How are you feeling?

"What are some things that you could suggest, "'cause maybe you have some great ideas and we hadn't thought about it yet."

So just making them feel important and involved 'cause that's very important, thank you.

- Buildings have memories and so once people ride by buildings, you know, we all get a sense of, "Hey, I remember that building."

I'm from Orange Mound, and so I know it'll be a tough conversation to talk about closing in Orange Mound.

But for my specific district, I think nationwide, the average age of a school building is 40 years old, 40.

And for the other municipals, the average age for school buildings is 32.

For us, our buildings are 62 years old on average.

And so it will be a tough conversation like my colleague saying, you know, we go into the community, say, "Hey, these are the reasons why we have "to build a new school, build a more technological efficient schools for our children."

And it's for the children.

And well, that's the idea, it's for the children.

So we keep the children in mind, we keep the community in mind, we can build safer schools.

And so it's just so simple as, you know, updating the smart boards.

And like Natalie said, you know, we have smart tables now.

And so just seeing just a more robust... We have smart tables now.

[all laughs] So just... - It's a new information for Natalie.

- So overall, just going in and coming up with a strategic plan, just showing the community, "Hey, this is what an updated school looks like."

- Right.

- Clarification on the new high schools that have been proposed: one in Frayser, one in Cordova.

Is the Cordova one a replacement school or that's an additional school?

- They're replacement school for Germantown High School.

- For Germantown High School, which was, again, gets to the whole consolidation, deconsolidation.

Okay, that was for me, thank you.

About six minutes left here, and it is September, early September as we sit here.

The legislative session, the Tennessee legislature is not that far away.

They do a lot of planning in the off season as it were before they start in January.

And I'll start with you Tamarques.

What do you want to see?

I mean the legislature sets a lot of policy, funds a lot of programs, has a tremendous amount of control and influence over what happens in Memphis-Shelby County Schools.

What do you want to see from the legislature and what do you expect to see?

And those things may not be the same.

- Well, what I wanna see is a better working relationship with all our state legislators.

You know, we want a fully funded education.

Definitely, that's always been a conversation since, you know, just me when I was on the campaign trail, we want a fully funded education system.

I know they used to use an old model with the BEP, now it has changed to TISA funding model.

So we definitely wanna take a look at that.

But just also being more transparent with them.

You know, so I guess want to have a better working relationship and what I expect is a fully funded education system.

Also, another thing is I expect is, you know, "Hey, come listen to us.

Let's do right by our children."

We're all newly elected members and now we all are in this for the right reasons and we want our state legislators to be in there for the right reasons as well.

So let's have a better, more robust conversation so we can figure out how we can move the district forward.

- Sable, same thing, - Absolutely.

Same thing, having a better working relationship.

And then maybe they can come visit us, check out our schools, talk to the kids, talk to the principal, the parents, you know?

You'll have a more of a better insight on what's really going on and how you can be supportive and how we can move our school district forward if you actually know what's going on, right?

Being a teacher and being in the classrooms, I know what the teachers are going through, I know what the children are going through, the principals.

So it gives you a different perspective when you can actually have that actual experience and you can see exactly what's going on firsthand, and that way that can influence the decisions that are made about our city a little bit better because they actually know what's going on.

- To you, some specific policies, again, what you expect, same question, but also vouchers very much on the horizon.

The governor has made that a very high priority, that one alone, and, you know... And then ASD, we could go through the long history of the Achievement School District and no one really wants to do that, but the other changes... - Please don't make me.

- But legislative interventions or in failing schools, what might you expect to see from the legislature on that front as well?

- Well, as you said, vouchers, we're gonna see that again, that's on the horizon.

I think to my colleague, Sable, here, data is king.

And I don't think there's any data anywhere in any state that has used vouchers that says that that has helped with anything.

So I think we need to think about the why, why are we doing this?

And whether it's really going to fit the context, our local context.

The other issue, there are multiple issues, but I think one of the things that we need to do is to move forward in a collective and collaborative way locally.

So thinking about bringing our City Council and our County Commission, doing some things together, and even our other municipal boards because this is going to impact not just Memphis-Shelby County Schools, but all school districts.

So how about us having some joint legislative things.

And as my colleague said, we're not enemies.

Talk to us, talk to us about what it is you'd like to see because we may be able to put our collective heads together and come up with something much, much more robust than vouchers.

- Yeah, just a couple minutes left, Laura.

- Sure, to round this out, you know, you do have two employees now with the general counsel.

But with your superintendent, part of the strategic plan that ends up being created is likely to align with how you evaluate this employee and how she is doing so far.

Of course, you are all newly elected board members just coming in, but if you could help our audience sort of understand the things that you will think about that should be on an evaluation of the top employee for this district, and Sable, we can start with you.

- Awesome, well, number one, data.

[chuckles] We're new.

So I think that's the most valid thing that we could use and the most fair thing to use when it comes to an evaluation.

The most effective thing to use would be obviously data, and obviously, maybe the climate is good and then just see where we are as far as student achievement, where are we as far as student enrollment and attendance.

Those would be some great things to start.

I'm excited, I'm looking forward to seeing what we have already and how we can add to that and just looking forward to just moving our district forward.

So I think just starting with those tools will be something good that we can use.

I think our colleagues would agree with that too.

- Anything to add?

- I absolutely agree.

We are, however, and yet, there are some things in law that we are required to do.

- Yeah.

- So there are five areas that we have to evaluate on.

I can't remember all of them, but I know, student achievement is high.

I think community relationships are another.

I think board and superintendent relationships are another, and I can't remember the other two.

But at any rate, I think climate, I think that's embodied in some of that.

But I think too, you know, the superintendent did have some priorities that she outlined when she first came aboard.

And I think that, out of fairness, she did some work.

We need to honor that work and evaluate according to that.

- And briefly, Tamarques?

- Thank you.

- Yeah, I agree with my colleagues.

We wanna definitely look at culture and climate.

We wanna look at the academic gains from where we are now, from the time she got hired for where we are now going forward.

So definitely, I'll be taking a look at that particular data as well.

- All right, sorry to cut you off, but thank you all for being here.

Congratulations on your win.

Thank you, Laura.

If you missed any of the show tonight, you can get the full episode at wkno.org, or you can download as a podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

Coming up next week, Marie Faegins, the school superintendent was much to discuss tonight.

And in coming weeks, Bacarra Mauldin, the CEO of MATA, and Paul Young, Memphis mayor in about a month from now.

Again, thanks very much.

And we'll see you next week.

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