[mellow R&B music] - Hello, everyone.

I'm Chima Onwuka, and I would like to welcome you to Fatherhood, where we aim to uplift voices and redefine legacy.

Today, we're highlighting fathers who serve as primary caregivers, not just for their kids, but for loved ones who rely on them.

Whether raising children alone or caring for a family member with an illness or disability, these men carry heavy weight, but the reward is undeniable.

This is "Fathers First: The Weight and the Reward".

[mellow R&B music] Here to help me dive into this important topic, Brandon Still.

- Thanks for having me.

- DeJuan Hendricks.

- Glad to be here.

- And Herschel James.

- Thank you for the opportunity.

- Let's get started, how are y'all doing today?

- Doing awesome, man.

- Man, doing good.

- Good, good, like everybody's looking good.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Black excellence.

I like it, I like it.

- You set the tempo.

- I set the tempo, well, you know, I'm just coming from work, so something light, something light.

But let's get into it.

Let's talk about, you know, the role of being a caregiver.

Let's start with Herschel.

- Okay, so for caregiver for me, I actually care-give for my father.

My father is a Vietnam vet.

He actually has heart failure, kidney failure, cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure.

So I've been in this role for about five years now, we started a little bit before the pandemic.

Like you said, it's a tough job, but it's gratifying being able to be there for someone who's, you know, been there for me my entire life.

- Brandon?

- Well, I don't like to say caregiver, I'm a parent.

So a parent of two children, a daughter and a son.

I do understand what women mean by when they say, you know, "It's hard out here for a single black woman," but now I can understand where they comin' from.

I hope I can share a little bit of my story and give people some insight and some encouragement.

- I can't wait to hear it, that's going to be exciting.

DeJuan?

- Yeah, I've been a primary caregiver for my son.

I'm divorced, and so I'm primary caregiver.

Definitely sharing responsibility with his mom, but I also have a father who had brain surgery twice and had prostate cancer, so I'm kind of dealing with both of those.

- Okay, so you see the diverse element of the caregiver role.

So, DeJuan, talk about some of the adjustments that you had to make as a caregiver.

- I think the main adjustment has been just really figuring out how to navigate being a dad and also taking care of the man who helped me be a dad.

So that's the challenge.

- Okay.

- So, ultimately, leaning on that foundation kind of helped me a lot, you know what I'm saying, guys?

So it's kind of one of those things where it was tough at first, but I realized if I took care of him, my son would see what I'm doing, and then it kind of go from there.

- That's important.

That's important for even to have the awareness for you to know what your father has done and his role in your life, and then transition that to your son.

- Exactly.

- That's cool.

And some of the adjustments, Herschel, that you had to make.

- It's been a lot of adjustments.

But I think, you know, similar to DeJuan, I have a young son, my son's seven.

So I think the biggest thing is balancing the time.

The time between making sure I'm taking care of my father and his needs, making sure I'm being an active father for my son.

So I think the biggest thing is really just being in a situation where I'm co-parenting effectively with my son's mom, but then also making sure I'm just setting realistic expectations for everyone.

'Cause, unfortunately, you know, we all know we can't be everywhere and be everything to everyone at one time.

- Sometimes we wanna be Superman, but we can't.

- Yep, I left the cape at home.

[everyone laughing] - No, the cape is always on you.

Cape is always on.

And then, Brandon, some adjustments, maybe you had to make.

- I would say it really wasn't adjustment really raising the children.

I think mostly the adjustment was actually raising them alone, because I was married also, so my kids was in the household.

So basically it just shifted from a two-parent household to a one-parent household, and then learning how to balance, you know, both roles, you know, the mother and the father, you know, 'cause I do have a daughter, you know, and I had a son.

So I took custody of my kids when my daughter was two and my son was eight, so you can kind of understand the adjustment.

We were living in another part of town, so I moved in with my parents for a little while, and then eventually I got a townhome.

And so it was an adjustment from moving my son from one school to another school, and so it's just, you know, one of the responsibilities you have to have, you know, that's best for both parties, you know, myself and my kids too.

I think that was like the major adjustment, just trying to figure out ways of how I can readjust this life that we had to better suit, you know, me and my kids.

- Can you talk a little bit more about even just like the custody of your kids, and even just the emotional and mental toll of some of the situation that you had to deal with?

- I'm really transparent with my kids.

So basically growing up in a two-parent household, I take a little piece of this, a little piece of that, and I just merge it together.

You know, so my dad was a truck driver, and so my dad was there most of the times on the weekends.

And my mom was primarily there all the time, 'cause she, you know, worked here, she didn't work out of town.

So just kind of just mending those two things together.

I don't really think it was a big adjustment for me just coming from that.

You know, I do know that a lot of men may have, you know, kind of issues, you know, especially when you're talking with your daughters and things like that.

And then, I just put myself in a woman's place, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you just have to do that.

You have to do that.

You know, some things may be uncomfortable for you to do, but, you know, you have to do that.

You know, I wouldn't go too far with some of the stuff that I see, but, you know, I do try to keep it within the limits that I see are good for me.

You know, like I've been telling my daughter about she gonna start a period ever since she was like four or five years old, you know, and just trying to get my kids adjusted to what's gonna happen to them in the future.

Never really talked bad about their mother or anything like that, but, you know, I always tell my kids, "You'll find that on your own.

"You know, you just keep going through life "and do what I tell you to do, you know, and then you'll be all right."

[everyone laughing] - So I'm learning, 'cause, you know, I'm a father of a daughter.

She's only a year and a half.

And just even hearing from you some of the things that, like, I'm not even thinking about a period.

Like, so something like that is even putting me in that space.

- I feel like the parents should tell 'em, because if the parent doesn't tell 'em, the streets will tell them.

- For sure.

- Or the kids that's their age will tell 'em, and then, you know, kids, they're in the same age, you know, you don't know nothing, they don't know nothing.

So that's for you to, you know, kind of prep your kids for, you know, things that they will, you know, have to endure as they get older.

You know what I'm saying?

- I like that though.

I like that.

But again, and before I move on to Herschel, even just understanding that taking for granted that I have a wife and then my daughter's mom is in her life, not even probably even thinking about that I have to be the one to talk about, you know, a period and different health concerns like that, 'cause, again, I'm taking it for granted.

So I do commend you from stepping in that role, because you have to play both roles in that situation.

So thank you.

All right, Herschel, again, first, I wanna offer my condolences to your father.

- Thank you.

- But talk about what your role was, and talk about some of the experiences that you had to endure with, you know, being the caregiver of your dad.

- Yeah, first, thank you.

- For sure.

- It's been a privilege to be able to serve my father as a caregiver.

Again, you know, he's a Vietnam vet.

He was actually infected with Agent Orange, so that led to some of his health difficulties as well.

The journey really was a long one, but when I'm looking back at it now in retrospect, it looked like it just flew by.

For someone who was so proud and was such a person who always made sure he was taking care of his business and he's putting his best foot forward, it meant a lot for him to trust me as much as he did, and so I always just tried to make sure I, you know, dealt with him with dignity and respect.

You know, listen, 'cause towards the end I actually had power of attorney over him and he was in the hospital for four months.

He lost all of his toes and then his leg.

And, you know, to see someone go through so much in such a little amount of time, and keep their humor and their positivity, and encouraging me, it was just really, I think, one of probably the best things that I'll ever be able to be a part of in my life, because now being in a situation where I'm potentially the patriarch of my family, I'm able to give that love and respect that he gave me to my son.

- Yeah.

Okay, can you talk more even about the grief?

Like, how did you cope after losing your father?

- Yeah, so today is actually day nine.

So in terms of grief, it's definitely a process, but I have a therapist.

I've been in therapy for five years, just a little bit before I decided to get a divorce.

So my therapist, I've already had a session with her, I already scheduled another one for next week.

But really just trying to look at everything in totality, celebrating my father's life.

And my father was in a lot of pain, he had a lot of health complications, so I have some ease knowing that he's no longer in pain.

But I think the biggest thing for me is just taking things one day at a time, because my new normal is not really gonna start until after the funeral, which is this coming up Saturday, so I'm taking it one day at a time.

But, you know, therapy, talking to friends, allowing people to be there for me.

- Yes, sir.

- 'Cause I think we could probably all, as, you know, fathers and caregivers, you're in situations where you really try to stay strong and, you know, insulated and keep things together.

But sometimes- - 'Cause you had to.

- You have to, and, you know, sometimes you have to, especially in the situation I'm in now, I'm leaning in on my support system.

- And I wanna commend you by saying therapy.

I'm not sure if you know, I am a therapist by trade.

So hearing a black man talk about therapy is very important in today's society, you know, you don't hear that a lot.

So thank you for bringing that up.

- Yes, sir.

- Before I go to DeJuan, I do wanna ask, how did you become the sole caregiver of your father?

Do you have any siblings or are you an only child?

Like, how did that even happen?

- So, I actually have eight brothers and sisters.

- Eight brothers and sisters?

- Mm-hmm.

And I'm not the oldest or the youngest, I'm a middle child.

I think a lot of it had to do with the relationship that my father and I have always had.

It's always been unique just in terms of I understand my father's father.

So understanding my father's father helps me to understand who my father is, whether, you know, it's the good things or the bad things, because nobody's perfect.

So I think just having that empathy and sympathy for him.

And then, my father actually lost his wife, my stepmother, in 2011.

So we ended up in a situation after she passed where he needed someone that he could trust.

And so, you know, it just so happened that I looked up and I was signing power of attorney papers and I never thought I'd have to use them, but, you know, here we are.

- Just like that.

- Yes, sir.

- All right, DeJuan real quickly, and not just quickly just, you know.

[everyone laughing] I'm in my newscaster voice.

- I see, man.

- Talk about the challenges or the hardest part of, you know, your role as a caregiver in your life.

Like what would you say the hardest part for you would be in terms of being a caregiver?

- Well, it's interesting, because listening to Herschel, where he is now, I was 13 years ago, because, again, my son was six, I was going through a divorce, my dad was ill at the same time.

So I think, and the love I can give you, brother, is do what you said, the support system.

I actually, since you're a therapist, I actually kind of- - Uh-oh.

- To answer your question, I literally as a joke dialed the EAP line.

- Okay, as a joke.

- Yeah, as a joke.

Like, "How many calls are these people talking about?"

And literally in the conversation they were like, "You know what?

"We need to schedule you to come in 'cause you sound this way."

- Yeah.

- And so those 11 sessions actually helped tremendously.

- Turned from a joke to 11 sessions?

- Correct, and that was cool, because, again, I was going through the divorce when I was joking, so I had to actually kind of go through and understand that.

So to be quite frank, when we say society, if it's truly the aggregate of your community, to be honest with you, a lot more men, 'cause I've heard both these brothers say the same thing, our dads, you watch your dad's father, you watch your parents, your dad, you always saw him working.

- Right.

- So, honestly, we kind of get it.

Unfortunately, when you have some deficiencies, it's tougher for those that may not see it.

So I was joking, Chima, but to be honest with you, I really knew what to do, but I had to go ahead and do it.

So that's really how I navigated that particular time period.

And, man, I just more power to you, brother.

It's literally when I heard his story, that was me literally 2012, 2013.

- Yeah, and, you know, it's funny that you say that, 'cause I was talking to my wife about this the other day.

You know, you say you were joking, even though you knew what you were doing.

But you say a joke because most men hide behind, you know, the joke factor or let me just say it's a joke, that way if it doesn't turn out right, 'Wow, it was a joke and I called.'"

- Right.

- Other times men get upset and they get angry.

So they will get mad and not know how to express themselves and using those emotions.

So I'm glad that you said that.

But a joke turned into 11 sessions.

That's important.

- 11 sessions.

Actually it was nine, they said I needed two more.

[everyone laughing] - You get the two more done.

- Yeah, I did.

- Okay, good, good, good, good.

All right, so let's segue into even just community.

So, Brandon, talk about like asking for help.

Have you asked for help?

Is it hard to ask for help?

Talk about even just asking for help and, you know, being the sole provider of your kids.

- It ain't hard asking for help at all.

- At any point in time, was it hard to ask for help?

Maybe now it's not, but- - Well, I don't think so.

- Okay.

- I always believed in, you know, you gotta ask to receive.

- That's true.

- And when you need help, you just need help.

You know, I've never been the type to, you know, kind of hold back, because if I needed help, I wouldn't be asking.

And people rely on me all the time, so I feel like- - Facts.

- You know, I need support just like other people need support.

You know, I really have no issue asking for help.

You know, I have a pretty large support system.

I still have a mother and my father, I have a fiance that's really active in my kids' life.

I have a sister-in-law, I got a sister, my brother.

You know, so I have a whole support system.

So when one say, "No," I ask another one.

[everyone laughing] - I love it.

And I wish other family dynamics was like that.

- Right.

- I think sometimes other family dynamics is not as easy.

You know, they might lean to you for help.

But then when it's your turn to ask for help, you don't get the same in return.

- Mhmm.

- Right.

- So even to tie into that question, have you ever struggled with asking for help, or what are some of the challenges that you had maybe even trying to get help or assistance from somebody in terms of your role?

- Yeah, I think I'm probably just a bit more prideful, so I've definitely had problems asking for help.

I think this last season that my father and I were in really helped me to kind of get out of that mode, because, you know, all of us know we wear a lot of different hats.

You know, I'm a father, I'm a caregiver, I also am employed full-time.

You know, I'm a son to my mom.

You know, I have other family members that I have to work with, and, you know, I volunteer sometimes in my free time as well.

So I think I just really got into a situation this last season where I realized that I couldn't row the boat alone.

And so I got into situations where I started asking my cousin maybe to go pop in on my dad while I go take care of my son, or, you know, have my sister to go sit with him, you know, while I, you know, go do something for me, maybe go play basketball.

So asking for help is new to me, but it's something I'm getting comfortable with, 'cause we all need help.

- Good.

Good.

And I'm glad you said that, it is new to a lot of men.

- Exactly.

- If at all, if it's possible to some men- - I feel like being a custodial parent, they expect me to ask.

- Yeah.

- You know, 'cause a lot of times they see me and it's like, "Oh, you have custody of your kids?"

I'm like, "Yeah," and it's really surprising to a lot of people, you know, 'cause it's not the norm.

And I think people now, I mean, that they see that I'm a father who has two children, I feel like people expect for me to ask for help.

You know, 'cause a lot of time they think that a man can't do it.

You know, now if I was a woman, you know, it'd be a whole different story.

You know, but because I'm a man or, you know, a male, you know, people are like, "Well, do you need help with something," or "you need help with this," "you need help with that?"

And so, "If you're going to offer."

[everyone laughing] - "I'ma take it."

- Yeah.

- And, see, that's been the issue with me.

Because I always seem to have it together, I've never been able to ask.

When I finally ask, they don't believe I need help.

That's been the problem.

My son's a sophomore at Tuskegee now, but that's been the issue literally when I've truly needed help.

Because, you know, the main thing I tell when I tell other brothers, it's, you know, I had to show him that, "Man, listen, Daddy is not Superman.

"I'm Bruce Wayne, 'cause I have to use other things in my utility belt."

- Right, there you go.

- "To actually get me together," you know what I'm saying?

- I love that, yeah.

- I ain't Superman, brother.

I'm definitely Batman, and it's a cost, right?

And so that was the issue of really showing people like, "Okay, I need help with this."

Like, "You need help?

You got it together."

And the last thing is really showing my son and other men, in order for me to really love him, I can't hate his mama.

And I couldn't truly love him and hate his mama at the same time.

So when you do that, asking for help from other women, they'll say, "Well, why would she leave you?"

and this, this, this, and all this stuff, I had to shut that up to make sure he hears positive things about his mom.

- Correct.

- Even though I may be going through something with his mom.

So that's part of that process.

So, you know, bro, I wanted to ask for help a lot of times and people would never give it, 'cause they didn't believe I needed it.

- Wow, I love that.

I love that.

And the awareness that you had is fantastic.

I love that, because having that self-awareness, having that awareness to even pour onto your son is very important.

So even let's take it back to the rewards.

You talked about the challenges, the difficulties, asking for help.

What moments do you find yourself, even as a father, that you feel like, "Oh, this is the most rewarding moment.

This is why I'm a father and I do what I do"?

DeJuan, can you start off?

- Man, these brothers can say the same thing.

June 15th, 2005, 4:22.

- Got the date.

That's what I'm talking about.

- 4:22 PM.

That's my son's birth.

- With the time.

Yeah.

- Literally that's the most rewarding time, right?

- Okay.

- Everything else was like, what can I do because of that moment, right?

- Right.

- So the cool part has always been, I've never missed anything, literally, the first thing I've ever missed was he had scholarship convocation this semester at Tuskegee and it was, I just couldn't get there.

- Just didn't get there.

- But literally there's nothing I missed.

So the look of your child looking into the audience when he's on stage, when he's running track, or your baby girl when she realize, get that first training bra, whatever, so it's one of those things, man.

It's that she's looking for us, as dads, for that, man, that's the consistent, it plays over and over again, man.

So I don't have one.

That birth was it.

From that point, brother, it's been love.

- Love that.

- Like, for real, it's been love.

- Love that.

And then, Herschel, what about you?

What moments in your life do you feel like, "This has been a rewarding moment"?

Like, "This is the reason why I'm in this role."

And if you're a spiritual person, "This is why God put me in this position."

- Definitely spiritual and, you know, to DeJuan's point, you know, my son's birth is always gonna be a rewarding moment, right?

- Yeah.

- But I think back on this last season with my dad, you know, my son and I were in that journey with him together.

And so, you know, we went from Baptist Hospital, to rehab facility, to the VA hospital, to another rehab facility, back to the VA, and so my son was there with me a lot of those times.

And so I actually cut my father's hair about three weeks ago, he had kind of gotten the Don King thing going, and he was consistently telling me, "We'll do it tomorrow, we'll do it tomorrow."

And about after 60 days of that, I was like, "Nope, I'm cutting your hair today," and so my son was there witnessing.

And just watching my dad speak to the nurses about how proud he was of my son and how intelligent my son was- - Wow.

- I think that was probably one of the more rewarding moments I had, and it's something for me, you know, that I'll never forget, because it was a moment where, you know, there's three generations here, and even though we're not here under the best of circumstances, there's still gratitude.

You know, so definitely for me that moment.

- Perfect, Brandon, can you talk about what your kids have taught you in terms of love and resilience?

- When it comes to love, you know, I'm just gonna say, I came from a family, like, we really didn't say, "I love you," and we didn't really hug a whole lot.

Like, we knew we loved each other, but, you know, it was just not like how you see on TV.

You know, like, "I love you, Dad."

You know, and so I try to do that with my kids.

You know, I try to hug on 'em, I kiss on 'em.

My son's 19, I still, you know, I hug him, I kiss on him.

And I noticed that, you know, my daughter will be 13 this year, and so she's getting into that mode now.

I used to ask her that like when she was five, "Are you gonna always let me do this?"

She's like, "Yep, yep."

And so now she's 12, she kind of looks at me like, you know, that look preteens give you like, "Don't touch me, don't touch me, don't look at me."

- But she wants you to.

- Yeah, and, you know, so I just stopped to ask her like, "How do you want me to show you that I love you?

"You know, if you don't want me to kiss you, like, how do you want me to show you?"

And she was like, "You can give me a hug."

You know, so now I know that she don't really like to be touched that much.

So, you know, I said, "You make sure you tell them boys that too."

[everyone laughing] - Yeah, there you go.

- Keep that same energy.

- Yeah, keep that same energy.

I'm the one that raised you, you know, they just telling you them little sweet nothing's in your ear.

But that's what I love about being a parent, you know?

And like I said, I always been there, you know, like my daughter was three, when my daughter was born, you know, I just had custody of my daughter ever since, like, full custody, since she was three, 'cause we were separated in 2014, got divorced in 2017, and then it's just been us since then.

You know, we stay in the same place.

It's like, just the, you know, stability.

You know, I tell people all the time, "I'm not going nowhere until I find a house.

You know, I'm not paying that much and be staying here."

And so people are like, "Yo, you still there?"

I'm like, "Mhmm."

But, yeah, you have to show your kids love.

And they may want in different ways, that's what the five love languages are for.

So, basically, in so many the words, I asked her what her love language was without her, you know, really saying what it really was.

But I know it ain't physical touch.

- Let me get a quick question for you, man.

How was it when you were with your dad and your son saw your dad, did you sense the resilience?

Did you get some resilience from that portion of just seeing that?

I kind of saw that with my son.

- Yep.

Yeah, for sure.

Number one, I think he reinvigorated my dad to fight.

You know, you could see him light up when he see my son.

And, you know, just watching them, you know, whether it's playing Tic-Tac-Toe or just talking to each other, being a part of that and witnessing that, it also, like you were saying, it reinvigorated me.

It put me in a situation where it's like, "This is my why, this is why I'm doing this."

- Right.

- So these generations are connected, and so that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do for both.

- Right.

- And a lot of times the grandparents does things differently from when they raised you, because now you're hearing the grandparent- - Grandparents, they're serious.

- Now, you're hearing the grandparents tell the grandkids, "We love you."

- This is serious.

- Yeah, definitely.

- And you're like- - "Where was this at when you were a parent?"

- I'm like, I'm not jealous or nothing, but I'm just saying, you know, like, they treat the grandkids, like, completely different, yeah.

- For sure.

- Grandparents, they have their McDonald's money now.

[everyone laughing] - That's right, that's right.

- Like, "You got McDonald's money?"

"No, but Granddaddy do."

- Yep, yep.

- No, that's important.

That's true, I'm seeing that now even with my daughter.

But no, this is amazing, y'all, I mean, I'm learning from this, from y'all's perspectives, from y'all's situation.

I'm sure the viewers are learning from this.

Thank you all for being here.

This was a great conversation.

I would definitely wanna keep this going.

Thank you all for tuning in.

Until next time, keep uplifting voices, redefining legacies, and showing the world what fatherhood truly means.

[mellow R&B music] [acoustic guitar chords]