[smooth upbeat music] - Hello, I'm Mickell Lowery.

I'm excited to welcome you to Fatherhood.

The premise of this special is to challenge stereotypes and redefine notions of fatherhood by embracing diverse roles and responsibilities that go beyond traditional gender norms.

Today we're gonna take a deeper dive and establish a safe space to hold compelling dialogue centered around topics dealing with the fear of stepping into fatherhood, mental and financial health, normalizing generational curses, and redefining legacy.

Here to help me break down this much needed conversation is the founder of Compleo Fitness, Michael Campbell, Senior Treasury and Financial Operations Manager, Desmond Jackson, Real Estate Agent, Brandon Hughes, and Life Consultant, Chima Onwuka.

Gentlemen, how you doing today?

- I'm good.

- Doing well.

- Good, good.

Excited about the conversation.

Thanks for joining us.

So let's get right into it.

What's your perspective of fatherhood and how does ideology change once you stepped into this role?

Let's start with Desmond.

- I think my perspective is I always thought I wanted to be a provider and a protector for my son and for my family.

And I think, traditionally as men, you think that and when you grow older, you want to be able to say that you've be able to have done everything you did for your child and for your family, and also be able to make sure they had a safe space too, so.

- Sure, that's a huge responsibility though, right?

There's not a blueprint for that.

Hopefully we had a father figure ourselves, but some people didn't.

Brandon, what are your thoughts about that?

- I do agree with you're saying.

But also to add to that is that being responsible, you know, showing that, you know, you can be a responsible adult with children and still have fun at the same time, I think that's important.

And also, you know, setting that foundation of faith, you know, showing your children that men do pray.

And that's very important in my household, is that, you know, setting that temperature and control of that temperature around our faith and foundation.

- Definitely important for me as well.

We all need a foundation when it comes to that as well.

But Michael, how about you?

How did your relationship with your father impact your experience in this role?

- Well, for me, my father, he was present in my life for the most part.

You know, him and my mom, they're still married to the day.

With my father, you know, he battled with drug addiction.

So, you know, regardless of that drug addiction, the days he was sober, he'd come in, he always kept us in the Bible, you know, regardless if he was going through that addiction.

Every Wednesday, he didn't miss, regardless of what he did outside the home, he always came in, he always made sure that we stayed instilled in God, stayed instilled in the Bible.

And so that was one thing that always, you know, stayed with me through my whole life is, regardless of what you're going through, you still have to be there for your kids, you know?

- Absolutely, right.

- Being present, you know?

And that's the main thing for me.

- You know, sometimes having children keeps us centered.

- Oh, yes.

- And your father, even though he had that addiction, which probably helped him become a better man, is that he didn't want you to go down the same path.

- Yes.

- You know?

That's an interesting aspect of it.

Chima, tell me about your first initial reaction of knowing you're gonna become a father.

What was that like?

- It was amazing feeling.

I would say though, just to be transparent, when I found out that I was gonna be a girl dad, it was a shock.

Everybody had their myths and stories about, you know, how my wife was carrying and the way she was carrying, how she was looking, that we were gonna have a boy.

So when that reaction that I got, when I knew it was a girl, it was a shock 'cause I was like, "Oh, we having a boy."

But however, when I knew I was gonna be a girl dad, I embraced it.

- That's cool.

- It was exciting.

Me and my wife, we planned when we were gonna have kids, so everything was just amazing.

Everything went well.

Yeah, I embraced it.

- Embrace it, man.

I'm a girl dad three times over, so, you know.

[group laughing] - Well, I need to take tips from you.

- Look, they're a handful, but it's always a blessing as well.

So, but Brandon, you're the newest father here.

- I am.

- So, I mean, tell me some emotions you've grappled with because how old is your son now?

- My son is now one week.

- One week.

- One week.

- So tell me about those emotions you've had in one week.

- Wow, so in one week it's life changing.

They say no sleep, there's definitely no sleep in the household.

You know, he wakes up every two to three hours to be fed.

And so my wife is nursing, and so I have to, like I said, control the temperature and make sure that she has everything that she needs, to keep her going dealing with, you know, postpartum, you never know what you're gonna go through.

- Sure, sure.

- After giving birth.

So that's important to me, is making sure that she's comfortable inside the home as well.

- And your wife's gonna be glad to hear that, right?

I mean, that's a lot of emotion in a weekend.

I mean, you know, for one week and your first child.

I remember me, it was like, "Don't drop her," or whatever.

- So tiny.

- They're so fragile.

So that's important.

Great, congratulations again.

- Thank you.

Thank you.

- So Desmond, you know, what are your thoughts on the importance of positive representations, role models as Black fathers with their children?

- Extremely important.

You don't generally see it.

I know growing up when I was in grade school, I did not always see my friends with father figures.

I did not see my friends' fathers pick them up from school, things like that.

My dad was on the road a lot.

He was a truck driver.

And so just having that representation for myself was important to me.

And then also I had other friends who had father figures too.

And when we got together, you know, those father figures were friends too.

And we were able to see that relationship and that bond of being Black men.

- Absolutely.

- And the importance of that and how that trended down to us as men too, as young Black men.

- You know, it's so important for us to be good representations because, you know, we may be representing for some people who don't have the father figure in their home.

And you know what?

They see what you do, right?

And, you know, it's one of the models for a hundred Black men is, you know, what they see is what they'll be.

So that's an immense responsibility.

Well, great conversation, gentlemen.

Let's unpack this next topic, which is the fear of stepping into fatherhood.

We must admit fear is a common and natural sentiment that many Black fathers experience when stepping into a space that's been negatively stereotyped for decades.

What are your thoughts on the depiction of Black fatherhood and how did fear play a part in your approach on taking on this responsibility?

Michael, how about we start with you?

- I think so much for me, or just as a Black father, for us, I think we get this stigma of, you know, fathers not being present in their kid's life.

And you know, with me, always being present, it was for me, I was afraid.

I was 20 years old, you know, still in college, young.

And for me it was so much of, not so much of being present, just the fact of just being a good father, you know, or just being, you know, not following the footsteps of my father, you know, somewhat in some.

So for me, it was scary moment for me, you know?

And it's still either, I'm 33 years old right now, so even in them 13 years, I'm still learning.

- Yeah.

- Every day.

You know, I have two daughters, so each day I'm learning something new about them.

I'm learning how to be a better father.

And, you know, and like I said, being transparent in the beginning, being young and still in college, still trying to do my thing.

You know, I wasn't the best father that you could be, not even close, you know, and I'm blessed that God has put great women in my life and put a great mother in my life.

And she held it down until I was mature enough.

You know, and I can say that, that I was mature enough to, you know, handle those responsibilities and stuff.

So for me, I think it was a big fear, but I think just being present and being there, you know, regardless of what I went through, I still make sure that I was at every show, at every, everything they can do, anything that was going on, graduation, I'm there.

You know?

So that's the main thing for me is just being present.

- Well, you know, you said something here, it makes me think about self-awareness and really just being vulnerable because you just said, "I wasn't a good father.

I wasn't prepared for it at the time," you know, and again, you don't know what you don't know, right?

You look at the people that we've had and maybe generational curses, we'll talk more about that as well.

And if you don't have a blueprint, even if you do have a blueprint, you still struggle with those things, right?

So how did it come for you to where you realize, you know, I'm self-aware, here's where I gotta be, this is what I wanna do, and I'm still continuously to grow every day going forward?

- Yes, and it was just that the older that my kids got, and I started to see like, we wasn't in the same household.

So that was another thing.

Now, growing up in the same household as your kids, so now how they mother raised them and how I raised them, we kind of raised our kids kind of two different ways.

Somewhere I'm more so as a disciplinary.

- Yeah.

- I had to really had to catch on to how kids kind of move nowadays.

How when we were young, you know, my parents was discipline, discipline.

My mom, she, everything was discipline.

She taught us how to survive, you know?

It wasn't so much of the love.

I knew she loved us 'cause she did, she provided for all 10 of us.

So, but just the love for me expressing that love.

- All 10 of you?

- Yeah, it's 10 of us.

- Oh goodness.

- Really, seven of us in the household, but it was 10 of us, yeah.

So, you know, it was tough just the love part showing and expressing that love towards my kids because I didn't hear it, you know?

That word right there was forbidden in our household.

You know, it wasn't, I wouldn't say so much of forbidden.

- Right.

- You know?

Because she did what she can do, you know?

- I'm with you.

- And you know, just as far as just hearing that word.

So for me, that was a struggle for me with my kids, is just expressing that love, saying it, you know?

And so now the older that they got, they come around me more, you know, I think in the last, like, probably last eight, nine years is when I kind of like realized, you know, when I started seeing my kids and getting into activities and stuff, man, that's when I started, like, started coming around then it better, better financially too, though, you know, financially, that was one thing too.

You know, a lot of us Black fathers, we deal with that too in the beginning.

So I think once that improved in my life and just wanted to be around them more and start realizing these girls, man, they see more, they see more than them guys know.

We can raise boys pretty much easier than we can with daughters though.

- It's comfort zone, right?

- Yes, comfort zone.

- Let me ask you all the question.

Did any of you all have a fear of becoming a father?

Were you afraid?

- Well, I definitely had a fear of becoming a father.

My father wasn't there in the beginning years when I was younger.

So my parents divorced when I was about two years old.

And so I can remember not being, you know, felt feeling like my father wasn't a good father for me.

You know, I would see all the other kids that had their fathers and not having my father around made me not want to have kids, you know?

Because I felt like in order to break that generational curse, for me to stop it was to not have kids.

- That's interesting.

- Instead of just, you know, pushing through it and actually showing, you know, my child that you can do it.

So growing up, like I said, it was challenging not having my own father around.

And I did have a stepfather around, and he was a good man, but he wasn't my father.

- Understood.

- And I wanted my father.

And so for me, you know, that fear stuck with me for a long time.

And it wasn't until I was 19 that I had a man to man conversation with my father.

And I had to, you know, basically express my concerns, my fears, and my traumas that I had growing up.

And during that conversation, it's kind of interesting that, you know, once I started talking about it, that weight was lifted.

But then he also, you know, I could actually see him transforming himself back into a child himself.

And then he started talking about, you know, the traumas that he had as a child and how his father wasn't there for him.

And so after we had that conversation, we had a great relationship until his death this past September.

So I definitely understand the fears and trauma.

- Yeah, that's powerful.

I mean, and we all are supposed to take it to the next level, right?

Your father did the best he could or had limitations.

You now embrace that and you're gonna take it to the next level with your son too as well.

And then your son, your son.

So all these generational curses or things that put us a hindrance, it stops with us and it continues to go forward.

- Absolutely.

- Chima, what about yourself?

- So I wouldn't say I had a fear of being a father.

Surprisingly, growing up, everybody always called me Unc at a young age.

Like even in college when I was 18, 19 years old, Uncle Chima this, Uncle Chima that 'cause I was always around kids.

And even growing up, my sister, she's, I think about almost 10, 11 years younger than me.

I helped, you know, my parents raise her when my dad couldn't sleep, you know, watched her at night, fed her and everything like that.

But my fear was more so becoming or being a great father.

And we talk about providing, you know, being there for your child.

But I'm talking about like more emotionally, like just providing the love, telling you, telling her that you, I love you every day.

Making sure you give her a kiss before she goes to daycare.

Things like that I don't want to take for granted 'cause I just want to emotionally be there for my child.

And I think as fathers, especially Black fathers, I don't think we do that enough.

I had this conversation with colleagues before, how many of your fathers tell you that they love you every day?

- Right.

- And I didn't, I didn't realize that was a thing until I was 20 years old.

And I asked one of my coworkers, he was talking in the break room, he said, you know, "I told my son that I love him."

I said, "You tell your son you love him every day?"

And he said, "Yeah, I tell my son and my daughter that."

I said, "That's interesting."

You know, that love word, I don't use a lot.

I mean, maybe so Father's Day, different holidays, but in my household, both of my mom and my dad, it just wasn't used.

And maybe that was cultural thing or whatever the case may be, but that just wasn't used a lot.

So now what I do as a father now, and then being married to my wife, I start doing that more to my father 'cause it was weird at first telling another man that I love him.

- Right.

- But now I am starting to embrace that and get my siblings to do the same thing.

So emotionally wanted to be there for my child was my biggest fear.

Like, how can I do that and embrace it?

- Do you all think, and you know, Desmond, I'll ask you this question and please jump in, but do you think the media has played a part in any of those fears?

I know what you just talked about, you both mentioned about your fathers and what things were done in your households, but what do you think, has the media played any part of the fears of becoming a father?

What do you think about that?

- I think so.

One, I was gonna mention, one of my greatest fears was the environment I was raising my son in.

Thinking of all the things that are happening today in the world and how to navigate through that, you know, at his age.

And just seeing him, making sure that he's able to make it to 18 years old, making sure that I'm able to see him get married, making sure I'm able to be there.

And when he has a child, things like that.

It definitely played a, there was a lot of anxiety around that.

I think just looking at the overall environment and just being in the city that we are living in today in Memphis, so much is going on from a negative impact.

Just Black men just being killed, Black men being arrested, and just so many other underlying factors too.

But most definitely media played a big part in that.

And, you know, those are things that I had to talk through.

I started going to therapy once I had my son just to understand more about not only more about myself and a deeper understanding of why I was the way I was, but also how I'm gonna carry that burden with my son, you know, as I go throughout each year with him.

- Desmond, you just said something about therapy, you know, it's a stigma in the Black community.

So how did you get to a point where you realized that's something you need to do?

Or did you have someone that influenced you to say, "Hey, you know, let's go talk to somebody about these issues, about these fears?"

Because you've got to a point where you understood it, right?

You understood what you need to do with steps take forward, but so many people, mental health is so challenging.

So many people just don't take that step.

How'd you get to the point you took that step?

- So one point is my wife and I, we did therapy like marriage counseling at the beginning and just making sure we going through those steps and I was like learning a lot about myself through that process.

And so when we went through this huge change of having a son, that provided me an opportunity to kind of go see my own therapist and talk through some of my own personal things that I wanted to discuss.

It does have this stigma that there has to be something just completely wrong with you, or it has to be some mental illness or something like that for you to go see a therapist.

And sometimes it's just a matter of kind of helping you see who you are as a person, understanding what you went through as a child to kind of navigate you and make you better as not only a spouse and make you better for yourself, but also better for your son too.

So there was, it almost felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders to be able to have a better understanding of what's going on just based on the history of what I've went through as a child and maybe certain things that were underlying factors that contributed to how I reacted to things, you know, in today's time.

- Yeah.

Thank you for that.

I mean, so many of us need to hear what you're just saying there and hopefully take heed to go talk to someone about some of these things, especially as we're talking about Black fathers.

So especially this myth, you can't internalize things and hold it in.

It's not good for your children or for your family.

The exciting part about this next topic is laying out a safe space for Black fathers to discuss mental health and financial issues.

So leaning in more to that, talk about those aspects, those fears you had as far as having the financial wherewithal being able to take care of children, to being a good father.

- Okay.

- Go ahead.

- Okay, well, for me, you know, I married at 24, at the age of 24, and so.

- Oh wow.

- You know, me and my wife, we knew that we wanted to establish ourself, you know, financially before we were able to have our own child.

And so that's part of the reason why we kind of waited so late in life now.

But just to have that foundation makes it a lot easier.

It removes a mountain that you don't have to worry about knowing that, you know, your finances are in order, you know, God is in your house, God is in your finances.

And, you know, one thing that we do is that we don't keep separate accounts from each other.

You know, we put everything out on the table.

It's not about who makes the most money, it's not about, you know, what you're doing, what I'm not doing.

It's just that we are in this together, you know, we are one.

And we decided to take that journey, you know, almost 16 years ago.

And it's been going well ever since.

- You know, that's one of the most important things you can have love all you want.

- Right.

- But if your finances aren't together, especially talking about children at the end of the day, because obviously there's a lot of responsibility that comes to that, but also too, that can bring along the same sense of stress that we have from that.

So we want people to be advocates hopefully when it comes to having those mental stress and having those conversations.

So Michael, what about you?

Are you an advocate out there for people that need to go have those conversations with someone, especially when it comes to mental health, when it comes to being a father?

- Now, yes.

- Okay.

- You know, as far as seeing a therapy too, a therapist also, I grew up from a family, like I said, we came from the country, man, you know, and my family, seeing a therapist that was, that was like, what?

- Yeah, come on.

- Somethings wrong with you.

- Go talk to God.

Go pray.

You know, that was us.

Go pray and talk to God.

You hear from God.

- Right.

- So for me, even as an adult for me now in my 30s, now I'm starting to realize like this, seeing a therapist is the best thing, would be the best thing, you know?

And now I'm getting to that step, you know, and actually hearing him talk now, man, that's just confirmation for me though, just hearing that because I know I need it, man.

You know?

Yeah.

I think a lot of Black fathers need it, and it's something that we fear, you know, I guess expressing our business to another person, right?

You know, especially as a man, we don't like expressing our business out to other people.

So I think that was one thing for me.

And just childhood trauma, man, that I kept in for so long.

I felt like I just need to pray about it, you know?

And prayer is good, prayer is great, but you also, it is okay to talk to someone about it, you know?

- It is.

- And like you said, you know, just to know yourself more and you would, you would never know unless you try, you know?

And that's how I look at it now.

So I'm at that step where, where I'm taking those steps towards, you know, seeing therapist myself and battling with my own trauma.

And I know that it would help me better as a father too, though, because like I said, with the emotions, I'm still working on that emotion part and that goes on for just not just as a father, you know, as a spouse, and just for me, it's just the emotional part.

So I'm working on that and it's, I'm getting to it though, so yeah.

- Let's get some insights though from, we know we have a therapist on our panel here.

[group laughing] - Right.

- We're talking.

We're gonna let the expert kind of tell us all, you know, pour into us, Chima.

So tell us about that.

I mean, what challenges have you faced surrounding systemic racism and challenges and stereotypes of being a Black father?

- So, pertaining to mental health, everybody said the most important things about mental health from what you said about people need to take away the stigma that you have to go see a therapist if something's going real bad or even from what you said that, you know, prayer is great, but when we talk about going to the dentist or going to the doctor, we don't just say, pray about it.

Like pray, make sure your teeth are good, or pray that your medical concerns are, you know, are going away.

Like, God put these people on this earth for us to go to them.

So a therapist is one of 'em.

So yes, I have a therapeutic background on mental health.

Talk about it all the time.

And one of the biggest things I would say about mental health, especially about fathers, is to understand yourself.

Like really understand your trauma, your triggers.

Understand what makes you upset, what makes you sad, what makes you stressed out, overwhelmed.

Because that pours into your child.

If you understand that you know how to cope with it, healthy coping mechanisms, then that doesn't bleed into your family.

So I always say, understand who you are first.

So when you go seek a therapist, openly express yourself.

You know, one thing we do as Black men and men just in general, we don't express ourselves.

So when you go see a therapist, express yourself, tell 'em what's really going on.

And what I found out the most about therapy and mental health, a lot of people don't even know they're struggling with stuff.

And that goes back to childhood, that goes back to how you were raised, your community.

Men are not expressing themselves.

So we are not even saying that we're dealing with stress, depression, suicide, abuse, alcohol and drug, whatever the case may be.

So going to therapist and talking about what are the things you're struggling with can greatly, tremendously help you as a father because then you are able to tell your kids how to cope with stuff that they're dealing with.

So, hopefully I answered your question.

- You did, but I'd like to hear one more of your thoughts because then I'd love to hear from the panel.

- Okay.

- So how do you prioritize, like self-care when it comes to that, right?

Because you said knowing yourself, but also knowing yourself means to know when you need some time.

- That's true.

- Now for me, I'm on the golf course.

Good thing is my daughters join me as well.

So that's good.

But I mean, what do you do to prioritize self-care and coping strategies when you feel like these fears and this weight of being a father, husband, whatever comes along with that seem to be kind of just surrounding you?

- So I'm gonna answer your question, then I'm gonna go back to what he said about finance.

So the first part to that question is, what I do is, what I do is I take naps, watch movies with my wife, exercise, a big advocate of playing basketball.

I know you're a big advocate of exercise.

So those are my biggest coping, 'cause taking a walk in the park, listening to music, little things.

A lot of people like to use vacations, but you can't always take a vacation, right?

So I always tell people, what can you do that doesn't require a lot of money or doesn't require a lot of time?

So you can step outside, listen to music, take a nap, talk to somebody, whatever the case may be.

So I wanna go back to finance.

And this is the reason why I wanna go back to finance.

I think men in general put finance like on the top priority of their list.

And this is what I mean by that.

Because we are so motivated to provide for our family, to provide for our children and our loved ones, I think that sometimes is a gift and a curse, is a pro a con because for me, and you can ask my wife, I'm heavily involved in the community, heavily involved in my work, heavily involved in different organizations.

But at the same time, I want to be there for my child and for my spouse.

And sometimes I battle in my head like, okay, you know, five days a week I did all of this and I'm coming home sometimes and my wife and my child is asleep.

But, and another aspect of me is saying, okay, I'm doing all this work because I wanna make sure that my child has to never ask for anything or never be in a situation where we're challenged with finances.

So I think one thing we need to remember and be aware of is that, yes, finance is important, but we need to have a balance or a compromise.

And that goes back to healthy coping skills and okay, what's the balance between, hey, I'm working this hard for my family, but I also need to be there for my family 'cause money can't buy love.

- That's true.

- Money can't buy being present in the household.

So that's one thing I do wanna remember.

So I did want to go back to that.

- Alright, I appreciate that.

Desmond, I wanna hear from you though, when it comes to self-care first, what are you doing to prioritizing self-care that you're coping with these things that you're, I know you've already mentioned mental health and therapy, which is great.

What other things are you doing?

- So I have a unique situation where I've been working from home since the pandemic.

And so a lot of times I don't get a lot of socialization with coworkers or just be able to step outside as often.

I used to work downtown and just get a fresh breath of fresh air, you know, at times.

And so just to cope with certain things, I'll go take a walk, you know, walk, workout, I started working out more.

And the importance of just making yourself feel better can change your whole sense of happiness, working out, eating better.

- Michael can tell us a lot about that.

- Yeah.

[group laughing] Eating better, eating right.

My wife has helped me out a lot with that too.

And just making sure that I'm in the right head space in that sense, by eating better, you just feel better from that sense.

Then also I enjoy basketball as well.

Love the Grizzlies.

Grizzlies probably stress me out a little bit more.

[group laughing] - Gotta let it go, man.

- But, you know, NBA playoffs are starting now.

I like to share that with my son.

He loves watching basketball now, which is so funny.

Like any, every night he's like, "The Grizzlies are coming on."

And I'm like, "No, not tonight.

"They don't have a game tonight."

[laughs] But overall those are helping me every day, every single day.

You have to check in with yourself every single day.

- Yeah, you do.

- If not, you can definitely lose yourself in a sense.

And then take it out on other people that love you too.

- Alright.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaking of finances, Brandon, the new father amongst us, what advice do you have for any new fathers out there that may be watching?

You're right into it here.

- Yeah, I am.

Plan ahead.

If you can, plan ahead.

You know, like I said, we planned our child.

So I knew exactly, you know, he was coming and had all the time and all the years to prepare ourselves, so plan ahead.

Financially also, I would say make smart investments.

Make smart investments.

Oftentimes, you know, in our culture, we don't talk about investments or we don't talk about the stock market or things that we are doing to get ahead in life.

Also real estate, you know, real estate is very good to invest your money in.

Ninety percent of billionaires and millionaires, you know, attribute their wealth to real estate.

So I think that, you know, owning your home and understanding that once you own a home, you can now do a lot bit more, you know, transfer money and move things around, sell that home and take the equity out and buy another home.

So it's a lot of things that we need to have a conversation about that we really don't share as Black men.

- Michael, what tips or financial advice that you wish that were given to you when you first started out?

Now, obviously you're still, we're all still growing.

- Oh, yeah.

- But what tips do you think, you wish that you had on the early end?

- He pretty much just said everything, but, you know, just to piggyback on what he said, for me, just planning ahead.

I think that's one of the most important thing, and this is with anything in life, you know, once you plan ahead, you already gonna be prepared and being ready, you know, and being ready to sacrifice.

And I think as a young father, for me being a young father was sacrifice, selfless.

That was one thing for me is those two things.

And I battled with those two things for a while was, you know, just, just being, actually being there.

And actually, I'm trying to be as transparent as I can be.

- We got you - Selfless.

That's why I'm stuck at, you know, 'cause we can get real selfish, you know, especially young fathers, you know, we get selfish with our ourself, caught up in ourself, and not realize, you know, we got somebody watching us, everything we do.

So me and my early 20s being a young father, I think that's one tip.

Just, you know, you have to be selfless.

You have to be, you know, if you want to get anywhere, you wanna have a great relationship with your child.

And for me it was, that was the main thing.

I was selfish.

I was selfish with myself.

I'm still, I'm trying to play sports.

I'm trying to go to the next level.

I'm not focused, you know, I gotta, I know that I got a good mother over here, children's mother, and I know that she doing her thing.

But for a lot of guys, I think we get real selfish when we know that we got something good over there.

And you know, we good.

You know, as long as I'm taking care of myself right now, you know, I'll take care of that when it's time.

So for me, that was a main thing for me as a young father, just still, you know, out here and partying and just trying to live for me, you know.

And eventually, it's a wake up call.

And for me, my wake up call was, my daughter's mom, you know, she contacted me one day and was like, "Your daughter, she's asking about you.

She want to be around you more," she said.

She was nine at the time.

Like, "She just wanna be around you more."

And that was one thing that just woke me up.

And from then on, it just, I ain't stopped since then though.

So, you know, that's one thing, just selfless, you have to be selfless, man, in this world when you a father.

And young guys, we battle with that.

And I see it a lot now, you know, just living your life and not just realize, you know, you got a kid right here watching everything you do.

Now they got social media, they watching everything you post, everything, trust me.

And they gonna repeat it back.

- You better give them an alternative.

- Trust me, they gonna repeat everything you do, so.

- Oh wow.

- Yeah.

- Amazing dialogue, brothers.

Switching gears.

Historically, trauma such as slavery, segregation, and systematic racism contribute to the perpetuation of generational curses among Black men.

During this part of the show, we're going to find ways to bring forth healing in traumatic situations.

So brothers, tell me about that, your thoughts when it come to those things.

When you've had these situations.

We talked a little bit about backgrounds and how our fathers have impacted the way we are parenting today, but Desmond, how have you dealt with maybe some traumatic things you had in your past or even in your wife's past that helped you shape how you've parent today?

- I would say, and I know you mentioned generational curses as well, but one thing that we have a challenge of in the Black community in general is our health.

My father, he's a diabetic.

And growing up, you know, you want, you don't really consider what that means, but when you get into an adult space, you realize, man, I'm drinking cranberry juice, Kool-Aid all the time.

Eating, eating donuts, Krispy Kreme donuts, hot light on, all these different things.

You're not thinking about what, how that affects you.

- Yeah.

- And now with raising my son, I started learning when I got to college, I learned how to cook.

My mom cooked a lot.

And I understood the benefit of putting the right things in your body, but also understanding that it's okay to, you know, have a good time and enjoy yourself too.

You know, you don't have to put these strict limitations on yourself, balance it out.

And it balances everything when it comes to, you know, just being a person and being a Black father too.

So with my son, I'm already starting him off on, you know, he thinks sparkling water is juice, so he drinks more sparkling water and water than anything now.

Just understanding, just building those health habits early on in the process so he can understand what that means.

And so those things that carried and from my father being a diabetic, hopefully, you know, I'm streaming away from it too, but hopefully my son can also, you know, break away from that curse of high blood pressure, diabetes and things like that.

- That's so prevalent in our community, you know, my father struggles with that as well.

And so you do things hopefully that it doesn't affect you the same and you don't want your children to be affected by that as well.

You know, Chima, how does, you know, issues as Devon just related to, and especially when it comes to just mental health challenges such as trauma, depression, you know, how do those affect men and being a father?

- Well, I think we talked about it earlier when it comes to mental health, like I said, I agree that everybody or all fathers should, you know, seek out a therapist.

And when I say seek out a therapist, nothing has to be quote unquote wrong with you.

Just for your mental health, for your mental sanity, making sure that you hit the marks that you need to hit as a father.

Making sure that you're not bringing baggage to the family, to the household, to your children that, you know, that you're not carrying on from your childhood.

Depression, believe it or not, a lot of people go through depression, don't even realize they're going through depression.

A lot of people go through anxiety and challenges and a lot of Black men deal with substance abuse, specifically alcohol, even drugs.

And that's the ways they're coping with certain stressors in life, whether it's their job, their marriage, or their family.

So understanding, you know, the things that you're struggling with and seeking out a therapist, seeking out a mental health consultant or whatever, being able to express yourself and being able to heal yourself in that way is gonna carry a long way for your child.

And then something that Mike brought up earlier about your partner or your spouse, I think as fathers we need to, 'cause he said something about showing whatever we do, our kids are watching.

So I don't know if we've talked about this as much, but showing them that we are respecting our partners, the child's mother, because believe it or not, you know, yes, single moms and single dads will say, I can do it.

I can definitely raise my child on my own.

But it's even easier and better and more effectively when you have two people involved, right?

So showing your children that you're respecting their mom, showing your children that, you know, you're giving gratitude and thanking them and treating them in a respectful way, I think goes a long way for our kids to see, especially our sons and especially our daughters 'cause if we're raising daughters, we want them to show what men are like and what those men need to be for them.

So I think that's very important for what he said earlier too.

- Yeah, I agree.

You know, it's you want to have as many positive moments as you can because there's not gonna always be positive moments.

- Correct.

- Right?

- But if your children see more of the positive side, and then when you have those moments that are not so positive, whatever it may be, disagreements, 'cause you're gonna have 'em.

- Gonna have 'em.

- Hopefully they'll see, okay, well that's just a moment in time.

That's the space.

So because Michael, you did bring that up.

So thinking about that as well, you know, what things have you intentionally put in place to say, okay, I wanna make sure I'm communicating this way around my daughter when it comes to her mom, or whatever it may be.

But also being the best father you can be.

So what strategies have you put, what things are you doing intentionally to make sure they're having those positive relationships?

- Definitely one thing is, like you said, it's how you treat 'em too.

How you treat your children's mom too.

So they're paying attention to that, you know.

So with me, like I said, as a young father, like I always piggyback on being, you know, as a young father in my 20s, I was big on, I love to, I love to debate, I love to, you know, so debates end up being, getting into arguments and stuff like that.

[group laughing] So you know, we was big on that.

Like we never had any fights or anything like that though.

But we always, we always debated on things.

I just say debate and, you know, debate.

[group laughing] Debate, yeah.

So, you know, my kids are like that now.

They're like that with me.

They would debate with me.

They think they know it all right now.

So, you know, they would debate me.

- Just coming back on you.

- Where they getting it from though?

- Yes, ma'am.

It's me, man.

- I can see that.

- I just, I can't say nothing.

So, you know, and I'm so used to being like this, you know, when they first was, you know, when they first was born, I'm used to being like this, like I said, the strict father, you know, in my mind I'm thinking like I'm gonna be the strict father like my father was.

And like me, you know, my parents was, so now learning like the new age kids a little bit different these days.

So for me, just also learning your kids too, you know, learning certain things.

So, you know, for me it was, we going to eat whatever mom cooks.

Now for our young kids they want, one of 'em want Chick-fil-A, the other one McDonald's, the other want this one.

So, you know, for me, when they were younger I was just like, nah, y'all gonna eat whatever.

- Right.

- You know?

So I had to learn.

That's one thing, just learning your kids too, also just, just learning them, you know?

Because if you going to still be stuck in your ways, you gonna, you know, I don't think that your kids would, you know, the relationship gonna be there like that, so for me.

- You sowing seeds right now for Brandon, 'cause right now listen.

- I'm listening.

- Yeah.

- His son eat whatever they feed him, and on a schedule and everything that needs.

- To a certain extent, yeah.

So I'm a pretty much healthy eater too though.

So I try to get them to eat what I want to eat, but they ain't going for that.

They want the wings, they want.

[group laughing] - It's okay once in a while.

- Yeah, yeah.

I don't mind.

Yeah, it's good to play a little bit though.

So yeah, just learning your children too though.

That's one thing too though.

So not being stuck in our ways of being this, this father just want to, you know, run everything though.

So for me, just being like that, even with their mothers, to piggyback on that just, you know, how y'all, how you talk to them and how you treat them and stuff like that.

So I try to be as respectful.

And one thing about me with my daughters, I always did things.

I'm opening the door for 'em, you know, my daughters now, they're at the age now where if sometimes you'll forget, you know, you get in the car with 'em, they'll just, she'll stand there.

She's gonna wait until you come open that door for her.

So, I'm glad that I instilled that in them, you know, what they've seen the fathers that, you know, seen the guys that you wouldn't want to be around and through me.

And they seen the guy, a father and a guy that you would love to be around.

You know, they've seen both sides.

- Both sides.

- So I can say, you know, they should be pretty good for them growing up.

- Good, good, good.

You know, Brandon, you know, speaking of your family, you know, new father, you talking about how you've had it a little bit more mature 'cause you were, you got a lot of sound advice, right, that some of us and when we were having children, in 20s and 30s - Right.

- You know, it just wasn't there.

But what role did kind of personal accountability play into decisions you've made impacting that the father that you are and that you'll be in the future?

- For me, I think the first thing you have to do is identify.

Identify that there are problems or issues that you have and that you may struggle with.

And so I wanted to kind of get all that out the way before my child comes, you know, before my child got here.

So the therapy, as you said, you know, going to therapy helps a lot to identify with the issues that you're struggling with and dealing with the past traumas.

So yeah, a lot of the past traumas that I had was passed down from my father.

And so, like I said, once I had that conversation with him, it was able to release something, a weight, a huge amount of weight that was on my shoulders.

And then just being transparent with my wife, you know?

We're very vocal with each other, you know, I love her to death.

She loves me to death.

We can talk about anything.

She's actually my best friend.

So when you see her, you see me and vice versa.

So just setting that tone and being the head of my household, having that Christian background, you know, letting that linger in your house.

And I think that helps us a lot.

And it put us in the right position to be where we are right now to have my son.

- Yeah.

Desmond, what about you?

- I have to piggyback off of what you said.

Therapy actually helped me see myself more and also help me redefine how I see Christ, Jesus Christ.

You know, Christ loved the church, and the way I love my son and my wife, that's the way I need to love them, the same way Christ loves the church.

It helped me identify in a way where giving myself more grace, giving my family more grace, commitment, responsibility.

And that you can't be overwhelmed or overworked about anything.

I'm a planner and so when sometimes things don't necessarily go the way I'm expecting it to go, I kind of get, you know, a little jitter.

I'm like, man, that's not what I was expecting to happen.

But, you know, being more balanced in that way of thinking, in that line of thinking, knowing that every day there's gonna be something different, there's gonna be challenges, there are gonna be certain things that's unexpected, whether it's with your wife or your son or children.

And how you adapt to that.

How would Christ adapt to that?

And so definitely have to piggyback off of that being a strong foundation.

- Well thank you.

So Chima, there's a reason why you're on the panel.

Alright, let's just, so all these questions about where we can get these resources from and what we should be doing are coming to you, because obviously when people are watching those people say, "That sounds really good, "you know, that's great.

Now tell me something I can use."

So Chima, where would you suggest, what resources are there available for people dealing with such issues?

- So, believe it or not, I mean it's 2024.

- Yeah.

- Google is a thing.

Your phone is a thing.

Social media's a thing.

You can get access to a therapist way easier than you could 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, especially post-pandemic.

There is one thing I love about Memphis.

People talk about the negatives of Memphis and the bad things of Memphis.

One thing I do love about Memphis is organizations.

There's plenty of organizations, companies, businesses that provide resources for these type of things, provide resources of fathers, single men fathers or fathers that need help with different things like that or anything about children.

There are resources for all of that stuff.

And Memphis does a great job of having so many organizations that help with all these resources.

So when I mentioned Google and internet and social media, it's a click away.

We're always on the phone, we're calling, we're texting, we're on Instagram, Facebook, whatever.

You can literally Google what you need and it'll pop up.

- Chima, I think the issue is we don't know if they're good or not, right?

I mean, you know?

- That's true.

- You know, these are obviously important things to us and obviously a lot of Black men just aren't used to opening up that way.

- Yeah.

- Black people, period.

- Yeah.

- I mean let's just, you know, let's call it is what it is.

And so going down a rabbit hole, I'm with you.

I can Google, it's like if I want somebody to work on my house.

I don't know if they're good, you know, they on the internet.

But you know, are there reviews or should we just try to talk to other people to say, Hey, you give me some suggestions, we wanna talk, we wanna do this one and done, man.

We wanna talk to one person and hopefully, that'd be it.

- So I will say Psychology Today is a big one where you can find, you know, the most accredited therapists or consultants.

But I also will get deeper with you and say, well your friends, the people that are in your circle need to be accountable for you, right?

So those people need to be taking care of themselves and knowing where to point you in the right direction 'cause I could tell you to go to this person or go to this website to go to this organization, but the people that you're gonna hear from the most, family, spouse, friends, - Yeah.

- So those people need to be accountable.

So I'm asking our viewers, I'm asking our friends, I'm asking our circle, be accountable for your friend, be accountable for your brother because those are the people that you're gonna listen to the most.

And I'm not gonna, I'll say this, I'ma tread lightly 'cause all my therapists friends, but you don't necessarily have to be a therapist to give impactful advice, right?

You know your friend, y'all grew up in the same neighborhood, same community, same school.

You know what he likes, you know what he wants to hear.

You know how to communicate that way in a way where he will listen, be that friend.

So you are the first line of defense, your friend, your circle, your spouse, your family.

- Great, great.

- Those are the first people.

- And all we're saying is take the first step.

- Take the first step.

- Even if it is just getting on Google.

- Take the first step.

- That's acknowledging that you need to take a step.

- I do want to add one thing though that's important that I want to, you know, throw to this table, not as a question, but something to think about even for our viewers.

How often do we communicate with our children and say, what do we need to do to be a better father?

We are men, so men are usually stubborn.

We're the head of the household, we're the leaders.

But sometimes it's hard for us to take criticism, to take advice and things like that.

But how often do we ask, regardless of age, our kids what do I need to do to be a better father?

And that's what, just a statement I just wanna throw out there to think about because I think a friend of mine asked me that, how can I be a better husband?

But I want to kind of translate that into this conversation.

How can you be a better father?

And who will know how to answer that than the people that you're fathering.

- That's good.

That's an interesting, that's an interesting tidbit there.

All right, good.

It's kind of really transition to our next discussion will be about legacy.

So great discussion, fellas.

Our final topic will highlight the importance of establishing our legacy.

Shaped by a complex history of resilience, struggle and triumph, the legacy of Black fatherhood plays in an impactful role in establishing a path for generations to come.

So question here, brothers, what's your perspective on legacy?

Let's start with Michael.

- For me, legacy is leaving something behind where my kids can grow up and they can continue to leave their legacy.

So for instance, like I say, I own a gym.

I'm working on gym number two, and also looking to get in real estate also.

So I know that, and I'm not doing it just for me.

I know I'm doing it for my kids because I want them to be able to live out the fruit of my labor.

I want them to be able to do the things that I wasn't able to do when I was young, you know?

So we wasn't taught financial literacy, we weren't taught these certain things growing up.

So I had to learn everything on my own, of course the research and then school.

So for me, just legacy, just leaving something behind where I know my kids can remember me and remember, you know, the things that I've done, at least for them, you know?

So that's main thing for me.

- That's good.

Alright.

What about yourself?

- For me, legacy, you know, since my child is just a week old.

- Yeah.

[laughs] - My legacy to me, I believe started once I became an adult and as you say, leaving something behind, it doesn't have to be of monetary value.

It could be something of inspiration or hope.

You know, every time I meet someone, I try to leave something positive with them.

And you know, sometimes people come in your life for seasons or a season, so therefore if you meet me, hopefully when you leave me, I leave something with you that you can take with you and that you can use and then hopefully it impacts your life and then you do the same for someone else as well.

- Yeah, yeah.

Good point.

Chima, how did fathers or male guardians play a significant part in your role as far as understanding the importance of leaving a legacy?

- My dad was instrumental in how he left a legacy for us.

Of course, if you look at my name, Nigerian descent.

My dad has done a lot in his community back in Nigeria.

Whether that's like, you know, putting streetlights, building roads, homes for people, doing different things, giving back to the church.

So seeing him doing that subconsciously made me want to give back to, you know, my community and my people.

So leaving a legacy was important for me.

Me and my wife recently just started a fund at University of Tennessee-Knoxville, where we provide scholarships and programming and different initiatives for students that are part of the Office of Multicultural Center.

And not say, like you said, not showing them the monetary value, but showing them that, "Hey, Dad was always giving back to people.

"I was fortunate enough to have certain things, "so why not give back to others to make it impactful for them?"

- Right.

- So my legacy for my kids would be just to show them that, you know, whatever you have, whatever resources you have, whatever knowledge, whatever influence you have, show them that you can give back to others.

That and number two is to show them how you are as a father.

And then for my daughter, show you how you are as a parent, respecting your spouse, respecting the child's mother or father, you know, being the leader in the household, being there, being present, making sure that you're expressing and communicating to your kids and your loved ones.

So that's the legacy that's more important than any fund, trust fund, whatever, is important to me as the father of my kids is to leave, you know, myself and my presence, my influence and my impact.

- Desmond, you know, speaking of legacy, they say it was reported that the importance of leaving a legacy extends beyond just your family, right?

Probably impacting the village, so to speak.

Talk to me about your thoughts about that as well.

Of course, you're leaving legacy for your children and things of that nature and you want to expound upon them, but how can that also affect your overall community?

- Building a a proper network around your children is very important.

Like I said, I grew up in the church, I grew up in the Baptist church, but now Seventh Day Adventist.

And I think being able to provide that viewership outside of my son just seeing me, my wife, grandparents, who else he's gonna see, he's going to go to school, making sure that he's in the type of school that is relatable to the things that we're teaching him, whether that's a Christian school or some sense of that, but also keeping him in church.

Being more involved in church.

I got a chance to see my father, my father was not baptized when I was younger.

He got baptized when I was in high school.

But when he got baptized, just seeing how he poured into the church, he was involved in the church.

He did just about anything you asked him to do in the church, but also made sure that we were aware and self-aware of being at church, not just going to church, but being consistent about it and showing a sense of responsibility into that.

So I think your network building outside of your immediate family is extremely important.

And then you also have other organizations you can get involved in.

Family organizations that will essentially put your children in a space where you have like-minded individuals like yourself and your wife or your spouse.

So I think it's so many other potential opportunities outside of immediate family to make sure that legacy is left with your children.

I know we talked a little bit about the assets and things like that too.

You know, from my perspective, I graduated college and when you graduate college you're expecting I'm getting a job as soon as I graduate.

[group laughing] But it doesn't work like that.

And one thing I did wanna provide my son is, you know, the assets are important in a sense where that was a stressor that I had early on in my life.

You know, 22, 23 years old, like where I'm gonna work?

What is my career gonna look like?

You know, how I'm gonna be able to save money and start a family?

I think just having those abilities and providing my son with those on that structure at the beginning of his life will make his 22, 23-year-old timeframe, hopefully a bit more smoother where he doesn't have to concentrate so hard on the finances.

He'll have real estate or assets to rely on if he needs money for something.

He doesn't have to come back to me all the time and say, "Dad, can I have some money?"

But this, he has the ability to do that.

- It's important.

- So yeah, it is definitely important.

I think all those aspects are important, yeah.

- But does that bring along a sense of stress as far as leaving a legacy?

Because I tell you, I have three daughters and so you're talking about trying to leave something behind, a legacy is important, but, you know, I'm trying to make sure I've laid the foundation that if something happens to me and things of that nature that they'll be okay.

Or at least putting those things in perspective.

So it's all great.

We all know we want to leave a legacy, but Michael, does that bring a little bit of stress or is it just me?

- Of course, of course.

You know, you always going to worry about your kids anyway.

- Right.

- You know, so for me, I wouldn't say it's a big stress for me, but yes, that's one of the things 'cause you working hard, you working hard for them.

So that part by itself I'd say would be like the stress part behind it.

Just worrying about them and how they gonna live if you leave today, are they gonna be okay?

So for me it's so much of of that than anything though.

So yeah, just the work I'm putting in day in and day out, I'm doing it.

I know I'm doing it for them.

So that's the stress behind it 'cause I don't want them to, you know, like he said, piggyback on him.

I don't want them to get to 22, 23, and have to worry about anything.

I want them, you know, I wanna make sure the foundation for them is already set and that's just on the financial side.

Other than that, I want to leave, as far as legacy, I want to leave that, you know, the spiritual background that I grew up from and that's what got me through life and continue to get me through is my faith.

You to have that faith even through the good or the bad.

My faith is so strong, man.

I'm telling you.

I really don't stress too much about other things other than that 'cause I know like, God got me.

- There you go.

- That's my number one.

You know, everybody that has trained with me in the gym, they know my one thing that I always say.

When they say they struggling or they hurting or I'm training 'em too hard, God got you.

[group laughing] That's my go to slogan.

- We may all need to go work out with Michael.

- Right, right.

- God gonna see you through this workout.

You got one hour.

[group laughing] - Alright, listen.

Amazing conversation.

I would like to thank my panel of fathers, Michael Campbell, Desmond Jackson, Brandon Hughes, and Chima Onwuka for being a part of this empowering conversation.

And to my fathers out there, always remember, a father is one of the most unsung, unpraised, unnoticed, and yet one of the most valuable assets in our society.

And today we changed the narrative.

Thanks for watching.

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