>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

ASIA PREPARES FOR A WHOLE NEW AMERICA.

MY CONVERSATION WITH THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN, RAHM EMANUEL.

WE TALK TRUMP, TARIFFS AND WHERE DEMOCRATS GO FROM HERE.

THEN -- >> I'M STRAIGHT UP SAYING WE SHOULD NOT HAVE WOMEN IN COMBAT.

>> NO WOMEN IN COMBAT AND DITCHING DIVERSITY EFFORTS.

IS THIS THE FUTURE UNDER TRUMP'S DEFENSE?

WE DIG INTO THE REAL WORLD IMPACT WITH FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY WILLIAM COHEN.

AND -- >> YOU HAVE TO LOVE LIFE TO HAVE LIFE.

AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE LIFE TO LOVE LIFE.

IT'S WHAT THEY CALL A VICIOUS CIRCLE.

>> "OUR TOWN" AS THE GREAT AMERICAN PLAY RETURNS.

SPEAKING TO KATIE HOME, JIM PARSONS AND THE DIRECTOR KENNY LEON ABOUT GETTING A FRESH TAKE ON THIS CLASSIC.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

WASHINGTON IS ALREADY BEING ROCKED BY PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP'S CABINET PICKS EVEN BEFORE HE ASSUME OFFICE.

NOW, WHILE THE CURRENT PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN ACTUALLY LANDS IN AFRICA, THERE WAS ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL CHOICE OVER THE WEEKEND.

KASH PATEL FOR FBI DIRECTOR, AND ONE MORE SWING OF THE TARIFF ACTS, NOW TRUMP THREATENING 100% DUTIES ON GOODS FROM THE BRICS ALLIANCE IF THEY DON'T REMAIN PEGGED TO THE U.S. DOLLAR.

THIS COULD ALL STOKE FURTHER TENSIONS WITH BEIJING AND CONCERNED REGIONAL ALLIES LIKE JAPAN AND SOUTH KOREA WHICH HAVE SHORED UP THEIR PARTNERSHIP WITH THE U.S.

UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN.

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS, THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN, RAHM EMANUEL.

A VETERAN DEMOCRAT, HE WAS ALSO THE MAYOR OF CHICAGO AND CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA.

RAHM EMANUEL, AMBASSADOR, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO LOOK, I'M IN WASHINGTON.

IT'S ALL VERY MUCH IN THE PRISM OF U.S. XHES POLITICS.

>> GET OUT AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

>> IT'S A FIELD TRIP.

WE SEE ALL THIS GOING ON.

YOU SAID GET OUT AND KEEP YOUR SANITY.

WHAT RIGHT NOW FROM EITHER YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS AN AMBASSADOR TO ASIA OR AS A DEMOCRAT, IS DRIVING YOU INSANE?

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME WE HAVE IN THIS SHOW.

BUT LOOK.

FIRST OF ALL, IT'S NOT DRIVING ME INSANE.

I THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT I OBVIOUSLY DON'T AGREE WITH THAT HAPPEN.

I'LL STAY IN THE LANE OF BEING AN AMBASSADOR.

I WON'T BE PARTISAN ABOUT POLITICS.

I THINK CLOSER TO HOME, OUR ALLIES FEEL VERY REASSURED ABOUT AMERICA'S POSTURE IN INDO-PACIFIC.

THEY'RE COMMITTED, WHETHER ON JAPAN, THE UNITED STATES, THE QUAD, ABOUT OUR COMMITMENT TO THE REGION AND COMMITMENT TO SECURITY BEING ENGAGED.

AND I THINK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, FROM WHERE IT WAS IN 2020 TO WHERE IT IS TODAY, IN MANY VOICES ON THE HILL, DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICANS, ALL AGREE THAT WE'RE IN A BETTER POSITION.

CHINA IS ISOLATED IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD BY THEIR OWN ACTIONS AND WE HAVE MADE THE MOST OF THAT.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT TO BE BUILT ON IF YOU HAVE A THEORY OF THE CASE THAT ALLIES ARE ACTUALLY IMPORTANT TO YOUR STRATEGIC VISION.

>> WELL, LOOK, THAT'S THE POINT, ISN'T IT?

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DEMONSTRATED IN HIS FIRST TERM AND IN HIS WORDS EVER SINCE THAT HE'S NOT REALLY A MULTILATERALIST.

HE'S NOT ONE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN PEOPLE BEING STRONGER TOGETHER.

IT'S A VERY AMERICA FIRST, TO COIN HIS OWN PHRASE, AND VERY TRANSACTIONAL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, WELL, WHAT DO YOU KNOW, FOR INSTANCE, THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT IS THINKING?

AND PERHAPS EVEN WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CHINESE ARE THINKING WITH THE LATEST TARIFF THREATS?

>> SO LOOK.

FIRST, THE WAY I BREAK IT DOWN.

AND I DON'T LIKE SPORTS METAPHORS BUT I THINK IT WORKS.

THE INDO SPAFK A HOME GAME FOR CHINA.

IT'S AN AWAY GAME FOR THE UNITED STATES.

YOU WANT TO MAKE IT CLOSER TO A HOME GAME FOR THE UNITED STATES?

YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH YOUR ALLIES.

THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT.

THE IDEA THAT YOU'LL DEAL WITH CHINA ON ANY STRATEGIC LEVEL FROM THE ECONOMIC SPHERE, THE STRATEGIC SPHERE, THE MILITARY, SECURITY SIDE, THE DIPLOMATIC, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALLIES.

THAT'S OUR FORCE MULTIPLIER ON SO MANY DIFFERENT FRONTS.

IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO BE A FORCEFUL WE ARE A PERMANENT PACIFIC POWER AND PRESENCE.

YOU CAN BET LONG ON THE UNITED STATES.

THAT'S TRUE FOR AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, JAPAN, KOREA, PHILIPPINES, SINGAPORE, ET CETERA.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT CONCEPT.

OTHERWISE YOU'LL DO IT FROM LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA.

FROM HAWAII.

THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE REACH AND THE CAPACITY.

THAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION.

NOW, CHINA WANTS EVERYBODY TO BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES IS OUT OF HERE.

WE'RE THE, THEY'RE GOING TO BE THE BIG BOY IN THE FIELD THERE.

AND THE UNITED STATES IS DECLINING POWER.

EITHER GET IN LINE OR WE'LL USE ALL OUR ECONOMIC, STRATEGIC POWER TO CRUSH YOUR SOVEREIGNTY.

THAT'S WHY THE PEOPLE, WHETHER THEY'RE ALLIES, TREATY ALLIES OR FRIENDS WANT AMERICA INVESTED IN THE REGION.

AND IT'S NOT -- YOU CAN'T BE AMERICA FIRST WHEN, AND BELIEVE IN AMERICA FIRST IN THE INDO-PACIFIC IF YOU'RE NOT DOING IT WITH ALLIES, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY IT BECOMES AN AMERICA FIRST AGENDA.

AND SECOND, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DRAWS PEOPLE FROM THE UNITED STATES IS THAT WE, WE HAVEN'T BEEN PERFECT AT THIS.

WE'VE HAD OUR MISTAKES IN EXECUTION OF THIS.

WE HAVE EXTENDED OURSELVES ON BEHALF OF ANOTHER COUNTRY'S INTERESTS WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE WILLING TO ALIGN WITH OURS.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR CHINA.

BUT YOU CAN SEE RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE MAKING MOVES TO TRY TO AMEND WITH COUNTRIES IN THE REGION.

THEY DID SOMETHING RECENTLY WITH INDIA ON THE BORDER.

THEY HAVE DONE SOMETHING RECENTLY WITH JAPAN ON THE FISH FROM THE JAPANESE WATERS OF FUKUSHIMA.

I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE AMENDS IN THE REGION TO ALLIES WHO MAY BE UNNERVED, SO I THINK WE HAVE TO KIND OF DOUBLE DOWN ON WHAT WE BUILT.

THIS IS ALWAYS, IT'S NOTHING -- YOU DON'T HIT AN EQUILIBRIUM.

IT IS A WORK IN PROGRESS.

I THINK GOING FROM A HUB SPOKE TO A TRI-LATERAL, MULTILATERAL STRUCTURE BETTER SERVES AMERICA'S INTERESTS.

WE FLIPPED THE SCRIPT ON CHINA.

THEY GO FROM BEING AN ISOLATED COUNTRY TO BEING ISOLATED IN THEIR OWN REGION.

>> THE TARIFFS ARE A BIG ISSUE.

I KNOW YOU TOUCHED ON IT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT WILL DO IT?

XI JINPING CONGRATULATED TRUMP IN A WAY THAT SAID, WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET ALONG, POLITICALLY AND IN ANY OTHER WAY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE TARIFFS WILL DO FOR AMERICA'S SECURITY AND ALLIANCES?

ALSO, FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE BIG ONES HE'S ALREADY THREATENED ON KANE AND MEXICO.

>> LET ME SAY THIS.

WHEN THE HEAD OF THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY SAYS WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET ALONG.

WE WEREN'T THE ONES THAT DECIDED WE WOULD GO FROM STRATEGIC COMPETITOR TO STRATEGIC ADVERSARY.

YOU DECIDED THAT.

WE'RE RESPONDING TO WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

YOU WANT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET ALONG?

LET'S NOT STEAL INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY FROM GOOGLE.

LET'S NOT STEAL INTELLECTUAL PROMPT FROM ASML.

WHEN THE INTERNATIONAL COURT MAKES A RULING ON BEHALF OF THE PHILIPPINES, YOU TOTALLY DISREGARD IT.

IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A WAY IN WHICH YOU SAY THE WORLD IS BIG ENOUGH FOR TWO BIG POWERS, OKAY.

GOT IT.

YOU'RE THE ONE THAT MADE THE CHANGE IN THE CONCEPT.

I THINK ONE OF THE FAULTS FOR THE UNITED STATES, WE'RE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.

THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN IN GOVERNMENT.

WE HELD ON TOO LONG TO THE BELIEF THAT CHINA WOULD BE A COMMITTED COUNTRY TO THE RULES-BASED SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY SO BENEFITTED FROM THE RULES.

IN FACT, THEY HAVE VIOLATED THOSE RULES IN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEFT, ECONOMIC ESPIONAGE, COERCION ON ALLIES, WOLF WARRIOR STRATEGY, VIOLATING THEIR AEZ ECONOMIC ZONES, A CORE PIECE OF THEIR STRATEGIC AND ECONOMIC BUSINESS MODEL.

AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

SO I DO THINK, LOOK.

I DON'T THINK THE TARIFFS IS THE END ALL AND BE ALL.

A NEGOTIATING STRATEGY?

I DON'T KNOW.

THEY HAVEN'T BEEN CLEAR.

THERE ARE MULTIPLE DECISIONS ONLY.

I WANT TO BE CAREFUL.

I'M STILL AN AMBASSADOR.

I DON'T WANT TO TAKE PART IN A POLITICAL DECISION.

IT DEPENDS ON TO WHICH END AND STRATEGIC DECISION, IS IT A TOOL IN A TOOL BOX?

OR THE TOOL BOX?

SO TO ME, IF IT IS A TOOL IN THE TOOL BOX, TO WHAT END DOES IT SERVE?

WHAT ARE THE OTHER TOOLS YOU'LL USE?

HOW DO YOU TREAT ALLIES TO BE PART OF A STRATEGY WHERE I STILL BELIEVE CONCEPTUALLY YOU WANT TO ISOLATE THE ISOLATOR.

>> IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S ALLIES, SO JAPAN, WHERE YOU'VE BEEN, WHERE YOU ARE, AND SOUTH KOREA, TAIWAN AS WELL.

I THINK THEY'RE ALL EXPECTING TO BE PRESSURED TO PUT MORE MONEY INTO THEIR DEFENSE.

TO PAY FOR THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS, MILITARY WHO ARE THERE.

IS THAT THE IMPRESSION YOU'RE GETTING?

DO THEY SEEM READY AND WILLING TO DO IT?

>> AS YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, PROBABLY THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN BOTH THE MILITARY STRUCTURES OF THE UNITED STATES AND JAPAN.

WE'RE TAKING A PIECE OF THE INDO-PACIFIC THAT HAS BEEN BASED IN HAWAII, THE COMMAND AND CONTROL CENTER, MOVING IT TO JAPAN.

JAPAN, EVEN BEFORE THERE WAS A TANK ON THE UKRAINIAN BORDER, A RUSSIAN TANK ON THE UKRAINIAN BORDER, AGREED TO GO TO 2% OF GDP OF DEFENSE BUDGET.

ACQUIRE STRIKE CAPABILITIES.

ALIGN THEIR NATIONAL SECURITY WITH OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AND OUR VISION IN THAT AREA.

NORMALIZE RELATIONS WITH KOREA.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THAT COMPONENT FROM A SECURITY STANDPOINT, JAPAN IS ON THE THIRD YEAR OF HITTING THAT 2% MARK WAY AHEAD, AND THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM BUT AN OBSERVATION, OF COUNTRIES IN EUROPE WHERE YOU HAVE A HOT CONFLICT WHICH YOU DON'T HAVE IN THE INDO-PACIFIC.

THEY'VE DONE VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT THINGS FROM IT.

THEY'LL GO FROM NINTH TO THE THIRD LARGEST DEFENSE BUDGET IN THE WORLD.

WE'RE THE NUMBER ONE DEFENSE SUPPLIER WHERE THEY PURCHASE WEAPONS FROM.

WE HAVE AN INTEREST THERE AND THEY HAVE AN INTEREST WITH US.

YOU CAN SIT HERE AND ARGUE ABOUT COST OF A BASE.

IT'S AN ISSUE.

IT'S NOT THE ISSUE.

THE ABILITY TO JUST TAKE, YOU SAID TAIWAN.

I HAPPEN TO THINK THE PHILIPPINES IS A REAL EVENT RIGHT NOW IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL 2027.

IT'S HAPPENING NOW BETWEEN, WITH HOW CHINA IS TREATING THE PHILIPPINES.

IF ONE OF THE STRATEGIES ON TAIWAN IS A QUARANTINE, THE PHILIPPINE AREA IN THE SOUTH ISLANDS, THE SOUTHWEST ISLANDS OF JAPAN MAKE A QUARANTINE OF TAIWAN MUCH MORE PROBLEMATIC FOR CHINA TO EXECUTE.

SO AGAIN, EXAMPLE A.

YOU WANT TO HAVE A STRATEGY TO DEAL WITH A DETERRENCE TO CHINA.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT WITHOUT ALLIES.

JUST LOOK AT THE MA'AM.

NOT POSSIBLE.

NUMBER TWO, I DO THINK, AND THIS IS ON US.

THIS IS WHERE I WOULD THINK, WHEN THEY SAY TO US, OH, IF WE WOULD SAY TO THEM, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR A BASE.

THE UNITED STATES MILITARY INDUSTRIAL BASE TO ME IS OUR NUMBER ONE SECURITY RISK.

THEY'VE NEVER MET -- NONE OF THE BIG FOUR HAVE EVER MET A BUDGET TIME LINE OR A DEADLINE FOR PRODUCING A MAJOR WEAPON.

SO THE IDEA, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I'VE BEEN ASKED TO RENEGOTIATE A CONTRACT WHERE, BECAUSE OUR COMPANIES HAVE NOT MET THE DEADLINE OR THE COST.

SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU, WE HAVE AN ALLY.

THEY'RE THE, ONE OF THE BIGGEST PURCHASERS.

THE THIRD LARGEST DEFENSE BUDGET.

THEY RELY ON NOT JUST OUR SECURITY COMMITMENT BUT THE PURCHASES OF WEAPONS FROM ALL THE MAJOR FORWARD MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPANIES WHO CAN'T MEET A DEADLINE.

AND EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE IN MAJOR STOCK BUY-BACKS.

ONE LESSON I CAME OUT OF HERE, WE SHOULD HAVE A POLICY IN THE DEFENSE BUDGET.

YOU CANNOT DO STOCK BUY-BACKS IF THESE TEN WEAPONS YOU PRODUCE AREN'T ON BUDGET AND ON THE TIME LINE.

I SAY THIS BOTH RHETORICALLY, IT IS SO FRUSTRATING FROM A SECURITY COMMITMENT WHERE YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AND RENEGOTIATE WITH AN ALLY WHO IS PURCHASING AFROM YOU.

>> ALL OF THIS WILL COME UP IN SPADES AS WE GO FROM ALONG.

YOU ARE A VERY PROMINENT DEMOCRAT.

HERE IN WASHINGTON, WHERE I AM, AND ELSEWHERE AROUND THE COUNTRY, THERE IS A LOT OF WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH OVER WHAT HAPPENED.

TRYING TO DO POST MORTEMS.

AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU THINK, THERE IS SOME PROMINENT DEMOCRATS WHO SAY STOP FREAKING OUT.

JUST STOP IT.

TAKE STOCK AND LET'S REALLY ANALYZE THE REAL ISSUE WHICH THE BOTTOM LINE THEY BELIEVE IS THE ECONOMY.

I WANT TO KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON THIS.

YOUR NAME IS BEING BROUGHT UP AS A POTENTIAL RUNNING FOR THE DNC.

JUST NOTEWORTHY ON THIS.

THERE WAS A BLIND TEST OF 100 POLICIES.

HARRIS'S AGENDA WAS OVERALL MORE POPULAR THAN TRUMP'S.

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK WENT WRONG FOR YOUR PARTY?

>> WELL, YEAH.

I THINK THERE ARE THREE LAYERS, AND I'LL TRY TO DO IT QUICKLY.

I WANT IT ON THE TOP LINE WHEN 70% OF THE COUNTRY THINKS THE ECONOMY IS NOT GOOD.

THAT'S A STRUCTURALLY ANTI-INCUMBENT.

AND ANY LEADER THAT HAS LIVED THROUGH COVID, IT'S BEEN BAD FOR THE BODY AND NOT GREAT FOR THE BODY POLITIC.

AND IT'S AN EXAMPLE WITH ELECTIONS THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPED WORLD.

A LAYER BELOW THAT, WHEN THE TOP OF THE TICKET RUNS BELOW SENATOR AND CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATES, THAT'S ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN YOU RUN.

YOU WOULD HAVE THE SENATOR OF PENNSYLVANIA, IF WE WEREN'T RUNNING BELOW THE TICKET.

THAT'S ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN THAT WAS RUN.

AN EXAMPLE, LOOK.

IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT DEMOCRACY, WHICH IS A BIG ISSUE, WE HAD YOU ON HELLO.

AND AGAIN, I WANT TO BE CAREFUL HERE GIVEN I'M AN AMBASSADOR.

THE IDEA THAT IT IS MORE ABOUT HOW THE OVAL OFFICE WILL BECOME LIKE EBAY.

WHETHER YOU'RE, ONE DAY YOU'RE FOR TIKTOK.

THE NEXT DAY YOU'RE AGAINST IT.

ONE OF HIS BIGGEST SUPPORTERS IS AN INVESTOR IN TIKTOK.

OIL AND GAS.

WE ARE THE DEMOCRATS, I WANT TO BE CARE KFL, ARE THE THIN BLUE LINE PROTECTING YOU FROM MAJOR SPECIAL INTERESTS THAT WILL RUN RAMPANT THROUGH WASHINGTON.

THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CORE ARGUMENT.

THERE ARE OTHER THING TO TALK ABOUT.

THIRD BELOW THAT.

NOT THIS ELECTION BUT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

AND THAT IS, I THINK, IF YOU GO BACK THROUGH THREE EVENTS.

THE IRAQ WAR, WHICH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE DECEIVED.

THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS LOST THEIR LIVES, PEOPLE MAIMED FOR LIFE.

PEOPLE WERE DECEIVED AND LIED INTO A WAR AND NOT ONE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT DECEPTION EVER WAS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

SIX YEARS LATER, THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY LIES TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

PEOPLE LOSE THEIR HOMES, THEIR LIVELIHOOD, AND PEOPLE ARE SCREAMING FOR THEIR BONUSES.

NOBODY HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

FAST FORWARD.

WE ARE FOR THE REMAINING YEARS THE ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT.

IN COVID, THE DEMOCRATS BECOME THE ESTABLISHMENT VOICE IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND THE COMPONENT ALSO IS IN THIS PERIOD OF TIME.

THE FIRST GENERATION OF AMERICANS TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR KIDS' FUTURES CAN BE WORSE THAN THEIRS WHICH HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN 200 YEARS OF HISTORY.

AND WE BECOME THE ESTABLISHMENT.

WE LITERALLY TALK LIKE THE ESTABLISHMENT.

WHO TALKS LIKE ABOUT THE CARRYING ECONOMY?

IT'S CALLED NURSES, TEACHERS.

NOBODY TALKS LIKE THAT EXCEPT THE ADJUNCT PROFESSOR TRYING TO BECOME A TENURED PROFESSOR.

DON'T USE THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

THAT'S HOW WE COMMUNICATE.

THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN COVID, AND PEOPLE'S LIVES GET UPTURNED AND STILL HAVEN'T GONE BACK TO A NORMAL ROUTINE AND THEY'RE ANGRY.

AND THE ESTABLISHMENT, I'M PART OF IT, WE'RE ALL GUILTY FOR HAVING ACTUALLILE, MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, NEVER HAVE A RULE BOOK THAT APPLIES UNIVERSALLY.

THERE'S ONE FOR THE ELITE, THE ESTABLISHMENT, AND ONE FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.

TO ME, THE ELECTION CAN BE UNDERSTOOD IN LAYERS.

AND I THINK THE BIGGER THING IS TO UNDERSTAND THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

REESTABLISH CONNECTIVITY WHERE THE VALUES AND THE IDEALS THAT WE BELIEVE IN, WE'RE GOING TO FIGHT FOR.

AND THEY'RE WIDER.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS IMPORTANT IN POLITICS.

THEY'RE WIDER THAN THE LOUDEST VOICE.

AND ONE THING THAT IS IMPORTANT.

THE PUBLIC BELIEVES, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS MORE CONTROLLED BY THE FAR LEFT.

THIS IS A CULTURAL FAR LEFT, THAN THEY THINK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS BY THE RIGHT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT JOHN KENNEDY, BILL CLINTON, AND BARACK OBAMA.

JOHN KENNEDY GIVES A SPEECH IN DALLAS ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

PRESIDENT CLINTON AT THAT TIME GIVES A SPEECH ABOUT SISTER SOLDIER, OPERATION PUSH, AND PRESIDENT OBAMA GIVES A SPEECH ABOUT FATHER RIGHT.

THEY SHOW THEY ARE BIGGER THAN ANY ONE MEMBER OF THE COALITION.

THAT HAS NOT ESTABLISHED.

WE NEED TO ESTABLISH THAT WE ARE A COALITION PARTY BUT NO ONE VOICE IS BIGGER THAN THE TOTALITY AND THE SING LATER OF OUR VOICE.

THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED IN PAST PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

>> DO YOU THINK, YOU GOT SEVEN WEEKS TO GO.

I GUESS, A, HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT COMING BACK FROM OVER THERE, AND B, ARE YOU GOING TO FOLLOW DAVID AXELROD'S ADVICE AND APPLY FOR THE DNC JOB?

>> I'M LOOKING FORWARD, AND I HAVE A COUPLE THINGS LEFT I'M GOING TO EXECUTE.

I MEAN THIS NOT JUST VERBAGE.

I'M GOING TO RUN THROUGH THE TAPE ON A COUPLE THINGS.

YOU'LL BE SEEING THAT.

BEFORE I TURN THE PAGE OVER, BEFORE I'M DONE, I WANT TO SAY IT HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE HONOR TO SERVE THE COUNTRY.

I'VE LEARNED A LOT.

NOT ONLY ABOUT THE REGION.

I'VE LEARNED ABOUT AMERICA BEING AWAY FROM AMERICA.

THE FIRST THING I'M DOING TODAY AFTER THIS VISIT, I'M GOING BACK TO CHICAGO, BACK HOME, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO RETURNING HOME TO CHICAGO AND I'LL TAKE A SENSE OF WHERE I'LL GO.

I'M NOT DONE WITH PUBLIC SERVICE.

WHAT ROAD I TAKE IN PUBLIC SERVICE WILL BE SOMETHING I DETERMINE IN THE FUTURE.

I AM GOING TO SPEND THE REMAINING TIME OF THE HONOR I'VE HAD TO BE THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR IN JAPAN AT THIS CRITICAL TIME IN OUR HISTORY TO RUN THROUGH THE TAPE.

IT WILL INDICATE EXACTLY WHAT I JUST SAID.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL BE WATCHING.

RAHM EMANUEL, AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN.

>> I'LL BUY YOU A ONE-WAY TICKET OUT OF WASHINGTON.

I'LL TAKE YOU ANYWHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

>> I'M HERE AS A FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT.

>> THE EMPHASIS WORD WAS FOREIGN.

NOT CORRESPONDENT.

>> RAHM EMANUEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> YOU GOT IT.

>>> NOW, HERE IN WASHINGTON, CIVIL SERVANTS AND LONG-TIME DEFENSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY STAFFERS ARE BRACING FOR RADICAL REINVENTION AS TRUMP'S UNCONVENTIONAL CABINET COMES TO TOWN.

TAKE A LISTEN TO THIS AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

>> I'M STRAIGHT UP JUST SAYING, WE SHOULD NOT HAVE WOMEN IN COMBAT ROLES.

IT HASN'T MADE US MORE EFFECTIVE, IT HASN'T MADE US MORE LETHAL.

IT HAS MADE FIGHTING MORE COMPLICATED.

>> HERE'S SOMETHING YOU WON'T HEAR ON THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

WHAT YOU DO HEAR IS THAT WARMONGERS ARGUING THAT WE MUST PROTECT UKRAINE BECAUSE IT IS A QUOTE, UNQUOTE DEMOCRACY.

THEY'RE LYING.

UKRAINE ISN'T ACTUALLY A DEMOCRACY.

>> I WOULD SHUT DOWN THE FBI HOOVER BUILDING ON DAY ONE AND REOPENING THE NEXT DAY AS A MUSEUM OF THE DEEP STATE.

>> WELL, THOSE WERE THE PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST PETE HEGSETH.

TRUMP'S WOULD BE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, TULSI GABBARD, AND HIS CHOICE TO LEAD THE FBI, KASH PATEL.

AND MY GUEST, HAVING BEEN IN THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE FOR HIS STATE OF MAINE.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, BILL COHEN.

>> I'M REALLY PLEASED TO BE WITH YOU AND THANKS FOR INVITING ME.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU, HONESTLY, THOSE SOUND BITES FROM THOSE VERY IMPORTANT JOBS THAT ARE BEING FILLED, ARE KIND OF WORRYING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

LET ME ASK YOU AS A FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY, GIVEN ALL THAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

WE'LL GET TO THE SUBSTANCE IN A MOMENT.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT APPEAR TO BE LOYALIST PICKS WHO REALLY HAVE NO EXPERIENCE IN WHERE THEY'RE BEING ASSIGNED?

BEING ASSIGNED, FOR INSTANCE, PETE HEGSETH AS DEFENSE SECRETARY?

>> WELL, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE APPOINTMENT OR THE NOMINATION OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A SUFFICIENT BACKGROUND IN THE AREAS THEY'RE GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO OVERSEE AND TO MANAGE.

WITH RESPECT TO THE, TO ANY OF THE APPOINTMENTS, I THINK WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE SUBSTANCE OF THE INDIVIDUAL, THE CHARACTER OBVIOUSLY BECOMES CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, AND MERIT.

SO THOSE WERE THE TESTS I WOULD SAY, WHAT IS YOUR SUBSTANCE, WHAT IS YOUR CHARACTER, WHAT IS THE MERIT OF YOUR APPOINTMENT?

CAN YOU HANDLE THE JOB?

EACH OF THE INDIVIDUALS WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT VETTING PROCESS OF CONFIRMATION PROCESS BY THE UNITED STATES SENATE.

AND THE NOTION THAT WE WOULD SKIP THAT I THINK WOULD BE CERTAINLY A THREAT TO WHAT REMAINS OF A CHECK AND BALANCE TYPE OF GOVERNMENT.

AND WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS WITHOUT HAVING ALL OF THOSE ISSUES VETTED BEFORE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

SO I WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

SKIPPING THE CONFIRMATION PROCESS, HAVING TEMPORARY APPOINTMENTS, RECESS APPOINTMENTS THAT COULD LAST UP TO A YEAR OR SO.

ALL OF THOSE ISSUES BECOME IMPORTANT AS TO WHETHER THE SENATE WOULD ASSERT ITSELF AS AN INDEPENDENT, CO-EQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, VERSUS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE SUPREME COURT.

>> THAT IS QUESTION.

I WONDER WHAT YOUR FEELING ABOUT THAT IS.

I FOUND OUT THAT WHEN YOU WERE, WAY BEFORE YOU WERE DEFENSE SECRETARY, WHEN YOU WERE A CONGRESS PERSON, YOU WERE A REPUBLICAN FROM MAINE'S DISTRICT.

AS A FRESHMAN MEMBER OF CONGRESS, YOU LAID OUT THE EVIDENCE TO IMPEACH PRESIDENT NIXON.

THE PARTY THAT YOU'RE FROM.

I WONDER WHETHER YOU THINK THE CURRENT REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE WOULD TAKE ON THEIR TODAY RESPONSIBILITY IN THAT MATTER.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT IMPEACHMENT.

I'M TALKING ABOUT A RIGOROUS LOOK INTO THE APPOINTMENTS AND THE APPROVAL PROCESS.

>> I WAS TRAINED AS AN ATTORNEY, A LAWYER, AND I BELIEVE FUNDAMENTALLY IN THE RULE OF LAW.

IT IS THE RULE OF LAW WHICH SEPARATES US FROM AUTOCRATIC, DICTATORIAL GOVERNMENTS.

THAT WAS PRIMARILY ON MY MIND DURING THE WATER EVERY WATERGATE ISSUE, IRON CONTRA.

I WANT THE PRESIDENTS, EVERYONE BENEATH THE PRESIDENT, TO ABIDE BY THE RULE OF LAW AND RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW.

AND I THINK THE PARTY MOST RECENTLY IN MAY JUDGMENT HAS BEEN MORE CONCERNED ABOUT POWER, RATHER THAN THE RAL OF LAW.

I WOULD HOPE THAT SENATE WOULD REASSERT ITSELF.

THEY CERTAINLY, AS A REPUBLICAN MEMBER WANT TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

BUT THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO INSIST UPON WHOEVER COMES BEFORE THEM, WHATEVER PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP MAY DO, THEY HAVE TO INSIST ON THE RULE OF LAW.

IF THEY DON'T, IT IS SOMETHING FUNDAMENTAL TO THIS COUNTRY AND THE NOTION THAT WE COULD REMAIN A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC WILL BE DISMANTLED.

I HOPE THAT THEY WILL ABIDE BY THE RULE OF LAW AND INSIST UPON IT.

AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THEIR HEARINGS TO SEE IF THAT WILL BE THE CASE.

>> I WANT TO DIG DOWN INTO THE DEPARTMENT THAT YOU ONCE HEADED AS DEFENSE SECRETARY, WHICH IS THE PENTAGON.

IT'S A MASSIVE, HUGE BUREAUCRACY.

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF BUDGET.

AND AS YOU KNOW, HEGSETH HAS SAID SOME VERY CONTROVERSIAL THINGS.

YOU JUST HEARD HIM.

NO WOMEN IN COMBAT.

WOMEN ARE NOT FIT TO BE IN COMBAT.

TELL DEI PROJECT.

THOSE WHO ARE BENEFICIARIES OF THAT WILL BE OUT.

INCLUDING THE HUGELY COMPETENT AND COMPETENT CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS.

ON TOP OF ALL THAT, THE NEW YORKER HAS JUST PUBLISHED MORE THAT THAT HE WAS TAKEN OUT FOR SEXIST BEHAVIOR, BEING INTOXICATED ON THE JOB.

IS HE FIT FOR THIS SERVICE?

THIS PARTICULAR SERVICE?

>> WELL, THESE ARE THE ISSUES THAT THE SENATE HAS TO REALLY EXPLORE.

FOR EXAMPLE, WOMEN IN COMBAT.

WE CAN'T FIGHT TODAY WITHOUT WOMEN IN COMBAT.

AND YOU HAVE TO DEFINE, WHAT IS COMBAT?

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HAND TO HAND COMBAT?

LIKE IN PAST WARS?

MAN TO MAN IN THE TRENCHES?

OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE KIND OF COMBAT THAT WE HAVE TODAY AND LIKELY TO HAVE TOMORROW?

WOMEN ARE FLYING OUR HIGH-PERFORMANCE AIRCRAFT.

THEY'RE DOING A GREAT JOB OF THAT.

THEY'RE FLYING OUR HELICOPTERS.

THEY'RE SAILING OUR BIGGEST SHIPS.

THEY ARE FUNDAMENTAL TO OUR ABILITY TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY.

AND I THINK IF ANYONE THINKS YOU'LL PULL THEM OUT, PULL THEM OUT OF WHAT?

TRAINING AS GRUNTLES IN THE MARINES, SO TO SPEAK?

HAND TO HAND COMBAT?

OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CAN THEY MANIPULATE DRONES AS WELL AS MEN?

CAN THEY FLY PLANES AS WELL AS MEN?

WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF DEFINING WHAT COMBAT IS TODAY AND WHAT WILL BE TOMORROW?

IF WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT UKRAINIANS ARE DOING WITH DRONE TECHNOLOGY FAR EXCEEDING WHAT MANY OF THE COUNTRIES, FAR MORE ADVANCED THAN THEY ARE IN TERMS OF THEIR MILITARY CAPABILITY ARE DOING.

WHEN YOU SAY PULL WOMEN OUT OF COMBAT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PULLING A MAJOR PART OF OUR FIGHTING FORCE.

I THINK IT WOULD BE A MAJOR MISTAKE IF IT CAN BE DONE.

AND I THINK FOR ANYONE TO SAY, NO MORE WOMEN IN COMBAT.

WE WANT THEM IN SUBSERVIENT ROLES.

YES, THEY CAN BE TYPISTS IN SOME SORT OF, THE NURSING PROFESSION AS SUCH, BUT THEY CAN'T BE WITH US IN THE WAR.

I DON'T THINK THAT CAN TAKE PLACE TODAY.

I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE WISE TO DO IT.

THAT'S UP TO THEM.

CAN YOU MANAGE A DEPARTMENT THAT HAS AT LEAST 20% OF OUR POSITIONS FILLED BY WOMEN?

SECONDLY, ALSO A NOT CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT WOULD BE THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE BEING PROMOTED BASED ON RACE.

I WONDER IF THAT APPLIED , THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN?

I WONDER IF THAT WOULD APPLY TO COLIN POWELL?

TO BENJAMIN O'DAVIS SR. AND JUNIOR?

SO MANY OTHERS WHO HAVE PERFORMED AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS?

AS FAR AS CHAIRMAN BROWN, DO YOU THINK HE'S BEEN PROMOTED BASED UPON THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN?

OR WAS IT REALLY BECAUSE OF HIS CHARACTER AND HIS SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY?

I THINK THESE ARE THE KINDS OF ISSUES THAT HAVE TO BE EXPLORED.

WHETHER SOMETHING IS SAID FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.

THE ONE THING WE CANNOT DO IS ALLOW THE MILITARY TO BE POLITICIZED AND TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME IN WHO ARE THEN SERVED IN OUR MILITARY WHO WERE NOT CAPABLE, NOT BASED ON MERIT.

SO WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.

>> I MEAN, APART FROM THE PRETTY EXTRAORDINARY FACTS THAT YOU JUST POINT OUT, IT IS ALSO A STORY ABOUT AMERICA.

IT IS JUST, THIS IS NOT WHAT AMERICA STANDS FOR.

DISMISSING WOMEN, DISMISSING MINORITIES OF ANY KIND.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT SOME PEOPLE ARE VERY, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT AS WELL.

I WANTED TO ASK YOU ALSO ABOUT SYRIA.

TULSI GAB AFRLD SHE'S BEING QUOTED, SHE'S SAYING UKRAINE IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

SHE'S BEEN VIEWED AS UNNECESSARILY SYMPATHETIC TO PEOPLE LIKE PUTIN AND SYRIAN PRESIDENT BASHAR ASSAD.

HOW DANGEROUS AND COMPROMISING IS THAT TO NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE?

>> LET'S GO BACK TO UKRAINE.

UKRAINE CERTAINLY IS TRYING TO FULFILL ITS DESIRE TO BE A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY THAT CAN BECOME A MEMBER OF THE E.U., CERTAINLY, AND ALSO NATO, THEY'VE BEEN WAGING A HEROIC EFFORT AGAINST AN INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMINAL, AS SUCH.

HE HAS INVADE AD SOVEREIGN COUNTRY, VIOLATING EVERY RULE OF LAW SINCE WORLD WAR TWO.

SO HE HAS INVADED.

I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PRESIDENT-ELECT CONDEMN THAT INVASION.

I HAVEN'T HEARD TULSI GABBARD OR OTHERS CONDEMN THAT INVASION.

THEY SAID THE UKRAINIANS CAUSED IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE A NATO MEMBER.

A MEMBER OF THE E.U.

CONDEMNING MR. PUTIN FOR VIOLATING INTERNATIONAL LAW, FOR TARGETING HOSPITALS, WHERE CHILDREN GO TO SCHOOL, FOR KIDNAPPING CHILDREN, FOR RAPING THE WOMEN AS THEY'RE INVADING.

NONE OF THAT HAS BEEN CONDEMNED.

SO I THINK THOSE ARE ISSUES THE MEMBERS OF THE SENATE HAVE TO RAISE SAYING, IS THIS AN INDIVIDUAL -- I'M NOT PASSING JUDGMENT.

THAT'S THE SENATE'S JOB.

THESE ARE THE ISSUES YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON.

CAN YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS TO OVERSEE THE INTELLIGENCE OF THE UNITED STATES, WHAT WE GATHER IN THE WAY OF INTELLIGENCE IS CRITICAL TO OUR SECURITY.

THE INTELLIGENCE AGENTS ARE ON THE FRONT LINE.

WE HAVE TECHNICAL CAPABILITIES SECOND TO NONE.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.

CAN SOMEONE MANAGE THAT?

WITH RESPECT TO PRESIDENT PUTIN, PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP HAS SAID HE ADMIRES HIM.

SAYING HE'S BRILLIANT.

WELL, A BRILLIANT MAN HAS DONE AN UNBRILLIANT THING INVADING A COUNTRY AND FINDING OUT HIS OWN MILITARY WAS FAR WEAKER THAN HE KNEW AND THE UKRAINIANS WERE FAR STRONGER THAN WE KNEW.

SO WE HAVE A COUNTRY STRUGGLING TO ESTABLISH ITSELF AS A EUROPEAN UNION MEMBER AND A NATO MEMBER.

THAT'S THE KIND OF THING I WOULD HOPE THEY WOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT DURING THE CONFIRMATION PROCESS.

>> INTERESTING, SPEAKING TO THE FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR, ANGELA MERKEL.

WE'LL HEAR FROM HER TOMORROW.

ONE LAST QUESTION.

THE ACTUAL REAL SURPRISE IN SYRIA RIGHT NOW WHERE ISIS, AL QAEDA COLLABORATION, IS MOVING AGAINST THE RUSSIAN, IRAN-BACKED SYRIAN PRESIDENT.

HOW DO YOU READ THAT?

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, A NUMBER OF FACTORS.

THERE HAS BEEN SOMETHING OF A STABILIZATION, SO TO SPEAK, FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS OR SO.

YOU HAVE MORE COUNTRIES IN THE REGION WHO HAVE COME TO NOT OVERTLY SUPPORT THE SYRIAN DICTATORSHIP BUT AT LEAST TRYING TO PROMOTE STABILITY FOR THE BENEFIT OVERALL IN THE REGION.

IT IS LIKE LOOKING AT A RUBIK CUBE.

TRYING TO MATCH TELL PIECES TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

YOU HAVE NOT ONLY RUSSIA INVOLVED, SYRIA INVOLVE, IRAQ INVOLVED, IRAN INVOLVED, YOU HAVE HEZBOLLAH THAT CERTAINLY HAS AN INTEREST, ISRAEL HAS AN INTEREST.

YOU HAVE THE GULF STATES.

ALL OF THEM HAVE AN INTEREST IN THAT REGION IN SYRIA ITSELF BECAUSE IT BECOMES A GROUND FOR PROXY FORCES MOVING THROUGH ISRAEL AND SYRIA TO SUPPORT HEZBOLLAH.

SO IRAN CERTAINLY HAS A BIG INTEREST.

ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES DO, AS DOES THE UNITED STATES.

THERE IS NO SIMPLE ANSWER TO IT, WHAT WE HOPE, I HOPE THE COUNTRIES CAN DO, COME BACK TO THE U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION.

I THINK IT WAS 2255.

TRYING TO PROTECT THE CIVILIANS WHO NOW ARE CAUGHT UP IN MORE TERRORIST CONFLICT.

SO YOU HAVE ABOUT A HALF MILLION SYRIANS WHO HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF THIS.

5 TO 8 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MOVED OUT OF SYRIA.

MANY GOING TO EUROPE TO HELP DESTABILIZE THE DEMOCRACIES IN EUROPE.

IT IS COMPLICATED.

THERE'S NO ONE SINGLE SOLUTION.

BUT IT WON'T BE ON THE BATTLE FIELD.

THERE IS NO ONE PARTY THAT WILL CONTROL THE ENTIRE AREA OF SYRIA.

SO IT WILL HAVE TO BE SETTLED WITH DIPLOMACY.

>> IT SHOWS HOW MUCH IS IN THE INBOX OF THE UPCOMING AMERICAN PRESIDENT.

WILLIAM COHEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED.

TUNE IN TOMORROW FOR THAT REVEALING CONVERSATION WITH THE FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR ANGELA MERKEL.

SHE SASS DOWN WITH ME TO DISCUSS HER UNVARNISHED OPINION ON PUTIN.

SHE DOESN'T HOLD BACK IN HER NEW MEMOIR, FREEDOM.

>> I REMEMBER WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS ELECTED, YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE TO ACTUALLY WELCOME HIS ELECTION CONDITIONALLY.

IN OTHER WORDS, BASED ON THE RESPECT AND THE AD HAERNS TO VALUES, DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY, HUMAN RIGHTS, RULE OF LAW, ET CETERA.

I WONDER WHETHER YOU THOUGHT HE DID ACT.

IN THAT WAY.

YOU SAID HE WAS CLEARLY FASCINATED BY THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT.

IN THE YEARS THAT FOLLOWED I RECEIVED THE DISTINCT IMPRESSION.

HOW DID THAT MANIFEST ITSELF TO YOU?

>> Translator: WELL, IN THE WAY THAT HE SPOKE ABOUT PUTIN, THE WAY THAT HE SPOKE ABOUT THE NORTH KOREAN PRESIDENT, OBVIOUSLY, APART FROM CRITICAL REMARKS HE MADE, THERE WAS ALWAYS A KIND OF FASCINATION AT THE SHEER POWER OF WHAT THESE PEOPLE COULD DO.

SO MY IMPRESSION WAS THAT HE DREAMT OF OVERRIDING ALL THOSE PARLIAMENTARY BODIES THAT HE FELT WERE IN A WAY AN INCOUPLE BRENS UPON HIM.

HE WANTED TO DECIDE MATTERS ON HIS OWN IN A DEMOCRACY.

YOU CANNOT RECONCILE THAT AS DEMOCRATIC VALUES.

>> A WILL THE MORE OF THAT CONVERSATION TOMORROW, INCLUDING WHAT SHE GOT RIGHT AND WRONG AS CHANCELLOR.

>>> NEXT, THE CULTURE BLOCK.

A BROADWAY REVIVAL OF AN MERGE CLASSIC AIMS TO REMIND US OF THE IMPORTANCE OF CONNECTION.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OVER 20 YEARS, "OUR TOWN" HAS RETURNED WITH A STAR-STUDDED CAST.

THE THORNTON WILDER PLAY FOLLOWS THE LIVES OF TWO FAMILIES IN A SMALL TOWN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AT THE TURN OF THE 20th CENTURY.

NOW, TONY-AWARD WINNING DIRECTOR KENNELY LEON IS REIMAGINING IT FOR A MODERN AUDIENCE.

HE IS HERE WITH JIM PARSONS AND KATIE HOLMES TO DISCUSS THEIR SPIN ON A TIMELESS TALE.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> "OUR TOWN" IS A STAPLE OF HIGH SCHOOL THEATER COMPANIES AND COMMUNITY THEATERS.

KATIE AND JIM, I'LL START WITH YOU BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WERE THEATER KIDS.

DID YOU EVER SEE THE PLAY WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP?

DO YOU REMEMBER IT?

>> I DID NOT SEE A PRODUCTION OF IT, NO.

>> YOU NEVER SAW IT?

KATIE?

>> I NEVER SAW IT.

I HAD NEVER READ IT.

I KNEW THAT PAUL NAUMAN HAD DONE IT BUT THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF MY KNOWLEDGE.

>> WOW!

OKAY, KENNY, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

>> I USED TO HATE THE PLAY.

I SAID OH, APPLY GOD.

THERE IS NO DIVERSITY.

THAT IS THE WAY THE WORLD LOOKS AND THE WAY THEY SOUND.

>> AS A THEATER KID, YOU SAW IT IN HIGH SCHOOL AND YOU THOUGHT -- WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?

>> MY CLASS INTEGRATED MY SCHOOL IN ST. PETERSBERG, FLORIDA.

IT WAS THE FIRST YEAR THAT BLACK STUDENTS WERE IN SCHOOL WITH WHITE STUDENTS.

AND THERE WAS NO VISION FOR THE BLACK STUDENTS TO BE IN A PLAY THAT WAS NOT MEANT FOR BLACK STUDENTS.

AND I ONLY STARTED SEEING MYSELF IN IT IN THE YEAR THAT THE HURRICANE WAS IN PUERTO RICO AND SCARLET JOHANSSON AND I GOT TOGETHER AND DID A FUND-RAISER.

WE DID "OUR TOWN."

I CASTED IT THE WAY A BLACK MAN WOULD SEE THE PLAY ALONG WITH THE PEOPLE FROM MARVEL CAST.

IT'S A HUGE, BEAUTIFUL, WONDERFUL PLAY THERE.

IF I EVER DO THIS PLAY, I'M GOING TO CAST IT THE WAY I SEE IT AND I'M GOING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE AMERICA.

FLASH FORWARD, ALL OF THESE YEARS LATER, YOU GET JIM PARSONS AND KATIE HOLMES AND THIS WONDERFUL CAST.

IT IS ONE OF THE BEST PLAYS EVER WRITTEN.

SO IT'S US MEETING THORN WILDER WHERE HE MEANT IT TO BE.

>> THE NAME OF THE TOWN IS GROVER'S CORNERS, NEW HAMPSHIRE.

JUST ACROSS THE MASSACHUSETTS LINE.

LATITUDE, 42 DEGREES, 40 MINUTES.

LONGITUDE, 70 DEGREES, 37 MINUTES.

THE FIRST ACT SHOWS A DAY IN OUR TOWN.

THE DAY IS MAY 7th, 901.

>> SO JIM PARSONS, YOU'RE THE AUDIENCE'S GUIDE THROUGH GROVERS CORNERS.

WHAT DOES BEING THE STAGE MANAGER MEAN TO YOU?

>> MY UNDERSTANDING, MY OPINION IS THAT IT IS PARTIALLY THORNTON WILDER.

I BELIEVE IT IS, MORE THAN ANY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE PLAY, IT'S AS MUCH HIS VOICE AS ANYBODY ELSE'S.

AND I REALLY FIRMLY CAME TO BELIEVE THAT IT REALLY IS A ROLE THAT IS WHOEVER IS PLAYING IT.

I MEAN -- THE LEVEL OF HONESTY THAT THIS PLAY STARTS WITH IN ITS WORDS.

THE FIRST LANE IN THE PLAY IS, THIS LITTLE PLAY IS CALLED "OUR TOWN."

IT WAS WRITTEN BY THORNTON WILDER.

YOU KIND OF GIVE UP THE LIE FROM THE MOMENT THE LIGHTS COME UP.

HIS JOB IS ENTIRE TIME IS TO KEEP BEING THE CONDUIT BETWEEN YOU THE AUDIENCE AND THESE ACTORS WHO ARE PORTRAYING THESE CHARACTERS.

IT WAS A HIGHER DEGREE OF HONESTY THAN I WAS PERHAPS USED TO.

I'M NOT REALLY HIDING BEHIND VERY MUCH AS A HUMAN UP THERE.

I HAVE TO BE HONEST.

IT'S NOT MY WORDS BUT IT'S AS MUCH ME AS I CAN MUSTER, WITH SOMEBODY ELSE'S WORDS.

AND THAT'S BEEN A WONDERFUL CHALLENGE.

I THINK THAT IT'S BEEN A WONDERFUL GROWING EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

AND I HOPE THAT IT HAS BEEN WONDERFUL FOR THE AUDIENCE.

>> KATIE, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

YOU PLAY MRS. WEBB.

SHE'S A WIFE, MOTHER OF TWO.

SHE'S VERY MUCH ABSORBED INTO THE DETAILS OF DAILY LIFE.

ONE OF THE TWO PRINCIPLE FAMILIES THAT GROUND THE PLAY.

THE PRIMARY STORY LINE CENTERS ON YOUR DAUGHTER, EMILY WEBB, AND GEORGE GIBBS, THE NEIGHBOR'S SON.

FOR PEOPLE HAD A DON'T KNOW THE PLAY, WHY DOES THIS RELATIONSHIP MATTER?

>> I THINK WHAT I HAVE FOUND IN PLAYING THIS CHARACTER, AT FIRST, SHE FELT A LITTLE FAR AWAY BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE PLAY IS FOR THE EARLY 1900s.

AND THERE IS THIS SCENE BETWEEN MRS. WEBB AND MRS. GIBBS WHERE IT'S VERY OBVIOUS THAT THESE TWO WOMEN, THEIR LIVES ARE DICTATED BY WHAT THEIR HUSBANDS ALLOW THEM TO DO AND THIS IS BEFORE WOMEN COULD VOTE.

ONE COULD LOOK AT THESE WOMEN AS, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOMS OF THE LIVES THAT WOMEN HAVE TODAY.

PAR THEM.

BUT IN THE PROCESS OF UNDERSTANDING THE PLAY AND TAKING ON THIS CHARACTER AND ALSO, REALLY ENJOYING THE FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN MRS. WEBB AND MRS. GIBBS, AND THE JOY OF THESE WOMEN.

THE HONOR THAT MRS. WEBB SEEMS TO HAVE OF NOURISHING HER FAMILY AND TAKING CARE OF THEM AND THE LOVE LANGUAGE OF CONTACTING FOR THEM EVERY DAY.

SHE'S USING HER HANDS.

SHE'S USING HER HANDS TO PULL THOSE BEANS, TO MAKE DINNER, TO BE THERE, TO LOVE.

AND THE JOURNEY OF HER RELATIONSHIP WITH HER CHILDREN TO ME IS JUST A PART OF THE OVERALL THEME OF LIFE.

WE'RE ALL A PART OF THIS PROCESS OF TIME.

THINGS BLOSSOM, THERE IS A PASSING.

AND THINGS ARE HAPPENING FOR US.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU READ REVIEWS.

IF YOU DON'T, I APOLOGIZE.

I WANT THE READ FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REVIEW.

THE REVIEWER WROTE, IF YOU THINK OF THE PLAY AS SMALL, SWEET, OR OLD-FASHIONED, I RESPECTFULLY OFFER THAT YOU HAVE THE SOUL OF A ROCK.

IN ANY GOOD ENOUGH PRODUCTION, "OUR TOWN" IS "TITANIC."

BEYOND TIME AND BRUTAL.

BRUTAL.

SO CAN I JUST HEAR FROM EACH OF YOU ON THAT?

>> RIGHT BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, I WAS DOING A PLAY ON BROADWAY.

A SOLDIER'S PLAY.

AND BROADWAY SHUT DOWN.

AND I FELT LIKE OUR INDUSTRY WILL BE THE LAST THING THAT WILL COME BACK.

THE ONLY THING I KNEW, IF IT EVER CAME BACK, THE PLAY THAT I HAD ALREADY SIGNED A CONTRACT TO DO WAS TO DO "OUR TOWN."

AND I SAID, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHAT DO YOU REALLY KNOW ABOUT THAT?

YOU GO FROM THE PANDEMIC, FROM WHERE WE WERE DIVIDED, SEPARATED FROM EACH OTHER, AWAY FROM THE GOOD IN US, THE JOY IN US, I HAD THIS ON OUR BACK PORCH THINKING ABOUT "OUR TOWN" BEING A METAPHOR FOR OUR WORLD, OUR COUNTRY, OUR TIME, OUR PEOPLE, OUR COMMUNITY, AND I FELT THAT THORNTON WILDER WROTE A LOVE LETTER.

HE DIDN'T KNOW IT BUT HE WAS WRITING A LOVE LETTER TO THE FUTURE SO EVERY GENERATION OF THIS PLAY IS DIFFERENT.

I SORT OF REACHED DOWN AND HAND-PICKED THE PEOPLE THAT I THOUGHT COULD HELP ME TRANSLATE THIS VERSION OF "OUR TOWN" TO OUR WORLD AND HOPED THAT OUR POLITICIANS WOULD HEAR IT.

OUR COMMUNITIES WOULD HEAR IT.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, OUR PEOPLE SITTING NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

BLACK AND WHAT IT.

BROWN AND YELLOW WOULD GET IT.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

WHEN WE'RE DOING OUR GOOD, WE COULD BE BEAUTIFUL, WE COULD BE JOYOUS.

WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE YET.

SO EVERY NIGHT, I'M HOPING MORE AND MORE PEOPLE COME TO SEE THIS PLAY IN HOPES THAT WE'RE ALL, WE COULD BE IN A PURSUIT OF A MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL PLACE AND FOCUS ON THE GOOD IN US.

>> JIM, AS THE STAGE MANAGER, YOU'RE ON STAGE FOR MOST IF NOT ALL OF THE PLAY.

AND YOU SEE THE AUDIENCE.

AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT MOMENTS MOVE THEM, OR HOW THEY RESPOND TO IT.

>> THERE ARE TWO THINGS IN OUR PRODUCTION THAT HAVE SURPRISED ME.

ONE IS THAT IT IS FREQUENTLY A MUCH FUNNIER PLAY THAN I THINK SOME PEOPLE, INCLUDING MYSELF, WERE PREPARED FOR.

AND IT IS ALSO SOME OF THE MOST INTENSE SILENCES I'VE EVER HEARD FROM A THOUSAND PEOPLE IN AN AUDIENCE BEFORE.

I THINK YOU CAN PICK MANY THINGS THAT YOU THINK ARE BRUTAL IN THIS PLAY.

THE ONE THAT COMES TO ME THE MOST, TO WATCH ALL THIS DAILY MOVING AND SHUFFLING AROUND THAT WE DO, AND BY THE END OF THE PLAY, PART OF THE MESSAGE SEEMS TO BE, ALL OF THAT THAT WAS GOING ON WAS KIND OF WHAT BLINDED US TO REALLY SEEING EACH OTHER WHILE WE ARE HERE AT THE SAME TIME.

AND THAT IS BRUTAL, IN MY OPINION.

I ALSO THINK WHEN EMILY, THE CHARACTER, ASKS IF ANYONE SEES IT ALL, EVERY MOMENT, AND THE STAGE MANAGER SAYS NO.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S AS BRUTAL AS IT IS FORGIVING.

I THINK TO ME THE MESSAGE IS, THIS IS THE FACT OF WHAT IT IS TO BE ALIVE.

BUT THERE IS ALSO NOTHING TO BE DONE ABOUT IT TOO MUCH.

YOU TRY AND CONNECT.

TRY AND LOVE.

BUT FORGIVE YOURSELF FOR ALL THE WAYS IN WHICH YOU'LL FAIL TO MISS ALL THESE HUMAN MOMENTS.

THAT'S WHAT IT IS TO BE ON THIS EARTH.

>> ONE OF JIM'S FIRST LINES IN THE PLAY IS, NO ONE REMARKABLE EVER CAME FROM THIS TOWN.

I WONDERED, WHAT DID THAT BRING OUT FOR YOU?

>> OUR SOCIETY FOR YEARS HAS VALUED REMARKABLE PEOPLE.

THE PEOPLE HAD A STAND OUT.

AS IF IT IS A FREE PASS FOR MORE TIME OR SOMETHING ELSE.

WHAT I THINK THIS PLAY IS TRYING TO REMIND THE AUDIENCE IS THAT WE ARE ALL INVOLVED IN LIFE.

AND NOBODY CAN ESCAPE ALL THE PARTS OF LIFE.

AND THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL AND THEY ARE HARD.

AND I LOVE THAT.

AND I LOVE THAT SENSE OF COMMUNITY AS WELL.

THERE IS NO, THERE IS NO DIVISION IN THIS TOWN AND I THINK AGAIN, WHEN WE START SEPARATING PEOPLE, THE SUCCESSFUL, THE NONSUCCESSFUL.

THERE IS A GAP ALL OF A SUDDEN.

WHAT UNITES US IS WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER.

AND WE ALL DO FEEL THE SAME THINGS.

AND WILL THIS PLAY REMINDS PEOPLE, YEAH, WE'RE ALL DOING THIS, TOO.

ALSO, I WANTED TO BRING UP WHAT I THINK HAPPENS WITH THIS PLAY IS, YOU KNOW, THE MOMENTS WHERE EVERYONE FREEZES AND THE CHARACTERS START TO HAVE THESE FEELINGS.

I THINK WITH GREAT PLAYS, YOU ALLOW FOR THE CONFUSION OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE WHICH IS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING.

OR LIKE GEORGE, ONE MINUTE HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET MARRIED AND THE NEXT HE'S FINE.

THAT CONFUSION STARTS TO SEEP IN.

THAT'S THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE, HUMAN NAME.

THEN AT THE END IT DIDN'T REALLY MATTER ANYWAY.

NOT REALLY, BUT I MAY NOT, WE KEEP LEADING THE AUDIENCE TO THAT, AND BEING THAT IS THE JOURNEY OF LIFE.

>> SO NEAR THE END OF THE PLAY, EMILY ASKS THAT FAMOUS QUESTION.

DO ANY HUMAN BEINGS EVER REALIZE LIFE WHILE THEY LIVE IT?

I DID WANT TO ASK IF WORKING WITH THIS MATERIAL MADE YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE SMALL MOMENTS IN YOUR LIVES IN.

>> I THINK WITHOUT A DOUBT.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD AND A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS REHEARSAL ROOM WERE THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO DO EXACTLY THAT WITH OR WITHOUT THIS PLAY.

BUT I THINK IT'S BEEN IMPOSSIBLE.

AND OUR GROUP DYNAMIC, OUR GROUP EVERY NIGHT, NOT JUST ON STAGE BUT OFFSTAGE, THE WAY WE FEEL ABOUT EACH OTHER GIVES CREDENCE TO THE IDEA THAT WE'VE ALL BEEN AFFECTED BY THAT.

I SEE EVERYTHING DIFFERENTLY.

AND I WANT TO ALSO SAY, AT KENNY'S INIT IS SENSE THAT WE ALL BRING OURSELVES TO THESE ROLES.

I'VE NEVER HAD A DIRECTOR INSIST SO MUCH ON THAT FOR THE ENTIRE CAST.

THE MORE WE'VE PLAYED THIS, THE MORE I'VE GOTTEN TO KNOW EVERYBODY THROUGH THE PROCESS, LIKE KATIE AS AN EXAMPLE, THAT MRS. WEBB IS KATIE'S MRS. WEBB.

THERE ARE A MILLION WAYS YOU COULD SAY THOSE LINES.

A MILLION PRESENTATIONS AND TONES YOU COULD HAVE.

IT IS PURE KATIE.

AND I HOPE THAT MY STAGE MANAGER IS THE SAME WAY.

THE MORE WE'RE DOING THIS, THE MORE I THINK THAT IS AS POWERFUL AN ELEMENT WITH THIS AS ANYTHING ELSE.

EVERY PART IS BEING SPOKEN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE VERY GENUINELY FROM THE INDIVIDUAL THAT IS THERE.

>> WHAT ABOUT YOU?

IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT WORKING WITH THIS MATERIAL THAT MADE YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE SMALL MOMENTS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I NOTICED IN MY OWN LIFE, REALLY BEING PRESENT.

WHEN I START TO FEEL LIKE EVEN IN GENERAL.

I'VE GOT TO RUSH TO THE SHOW.

AM I RUNNING LATE?

I GO, NOPE, I'M NOT GOING TO DO.

THAT.

I'M GOING TO ENJOY MY SHOWER.

I'M GOING TO STAY WHERE I AM.

AND IT HAS MADE ME REALLY SEE PEOPLE AND ALSO, I THINK BECAUSE THIS PLAY OFFERS YOU THE OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE IT'S SO SOLID.

YOU CAN GO IN ONE NIGHT THINK AND, I THINK THAT LINE MEANS THIS.

AND YOU CAN JUST PLAY A LITTLE, PLAY WITH IT A LITTLE BIT.

AND I'VE NOTICED THAT NOW IN LIFE, I AM NOT REACTING TO THINGS SO QUICKLY.

I GO OH, WAIT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS TO COMPREHEND THIS.

AND A LOT OF WAYS NOW THAT I CAN COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE.

I'M GOING TO TAKE A BEAT.

IT'S ALL UP FOR INTERPRETATION.

YOU KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANT HOW WE TREAT ONE ANOTHER.

HOW CAN I LOOK AT THIS SITUATION AND KNOW THAT I MADE THE BEST CHOICE.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE SPEECH YOU MADE ON OPENING NIGHT.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE EXPERIMENT OF BEING AN AMERICAN.

YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN EXPERIMENT ABOUT HUMANITY OVER MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS.

BUT IT'S AN EXPERIMENT.

AN AMERICAN EXPERIMENT.

AND WE AIN'T GOT IT RIGHT YET.

BUT LORD, LET'S NOT GO BACK.

THIS IS OUR OPPORTUNITY TO STRAIGHTEN IT OUT.

THE REASON THAT I RAISE THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU STARTED WORKING THIS PLAY BEFORE THE ELECTION THAT JUST HAPPENED.

FOR MANY PEOPLE, THIS HAS BEEN A SHOCKING AND CHALLENGING EXPERIENCE.

I WONDER IF YOU THINK IT SAYS NOW THAT IS DIFFERENT IN LIGHT OF ALL THE FEELINGS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'VE JUST GONE THROUGH?

>> AS AN AMERICAN ARTIST, I THINK THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE TIME WHERE WE FEEL MOST EMPOWERED.

AND THIS IS THE TIME WHERE WE HAVE TO HAVE A VOICE.

AND IT REMINDS ME, JUST LIKE IN "OUR TOWN," WE'RE REALLY ALL TIED TOGETHER.

NOTHING CHANGED AFTER THE ELECTION.

WE'RE STILL ALL REALLY TIED TOGETHER.

I'M THE GRANDSON OF SHARE CROPPERS, CIVIL RIGHTS, WE WENT THROUGH RODNEY KING, WE WENT THROUGH SO MUCH AND WE'LL SURVIVE THIS.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT HOW YOUNG THIS COUNTRY IS, HOW MANY MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS THORNTON WILDER TALKS ABOUT, COMPARED TO THIS LITTLE SMALL BIT OF TIME.

WE JUST GOT FURTHER TO GO.

AND WE'RE ALL TIED TOGETHER.

SOONER OR LATER, WE'LL LEARN FROM OUR ARCHAEOLOGISTS.

WE WILL.

WE ARE AMERICANS.

WE HAD MANY PEOPLE BEFORE US TO FATE FOR US, TO LIVE FOR US, TO STAND FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY.

THE WAR HAS NOT CHANGED.

THE WAR IS STILL FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY.

AND EVERY GENERATION HAS TO STAND UP FOR IT.

EVERY TIME I DIRECT SOMETHING, EVERY TIME I WRITE SOMETHING.

I'M TRYING TO ENGAGE WITH ARTISTS WHO ARE THINKING THE SAME.

AMERICA BELONGS TO THE AUFRLT NOT THE ONE, NOT THE SOME.

IT'S OUR TOWN, OUR WORLD, OUR COUNTRY.

>> THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

GOODBYE FROM WASHINGTON.