AMNA NAWAZ: For more on the week's political# headlines, we turn now to the analysis of Brooks## and Capehart.

That is New York Times columnist# David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MSNBC.

Great to see you both.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Hey, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: Can I get you.. late today commuted the sentence of former# New York Republican Congressman George Santos,## who reported to prison this summer after pleading# guilty to a laundry list of federal charges,## including wire fraud, identity# theft, and money laundering?

The president said: "At least he always had the# courage and conviction to Vought Republican."

Jonathan, what do you make of## that decision by the president?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I.. it's the theater of the absurd in the# extreme.

This guy stole from people.## He did all sorts of horrible things.

He was# held -- he was being held accountable for it.

And the president, as we have seen# many, many times, just used this as## an opportunity to just stick his finger# in the eye of justice, of accountability,## of everything that we used# to think was normal and sane.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, what do you make of it?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I picked up on the sentence# you read.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: And th.. It made me think, is there any Republican that# Trump would not commute or not pardon?

And he's## turned it into a partisan game the granting# of pardons, and Santos is going to claim he## broke out of prison like "Shawshank Redemption" or# something, I don't know what story he will tell.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: Well, look, let's turn now# to what we saw this week, which was big## news for the president overseas, able to muscle# through a major peace deal in the Middle East,## and we saw still working to# broker some kind of peace deal,## hosting Zelenskyy at the White House# and calling Putin this week as well.

But, meanwhile, it is day 17 of the government# shutdown back here at home.

The rhetoric has## not changed from either side, Jonathan.

And the# president hasn't really engaged in the kind of## brokering we traditionally see presidents# do.

Can he be a dealmaker back here too?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes, we have seen it.We have# seen it.

So if the president were to turn his## attention to the government shutdown and figure# out what both sides wants and then just say,## this is what I want to do, of course, we# have seen time and again Republicans will## do whatever the president tells them to do,# even if they have held an opposing position.

So -- but he hasn't seemed like he wants to get# involved, which makes me think he likes what's## happening.

Maybe he likes what's happening.

Maybe# given what we -- the package on Russell Vought,## maybe this shutdown does give him the# opportunity, him and Russell Vought,## the opportunity to slash at the federal government# in ways they couldn't do under regular order.

And I don't know.

It's a terrible game.

It's# a terrible game for the president to play,## because real people, Americans are getting hurt.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, Jonathan raises# a good point.

Is there incentive## for the president to want to end the shutdown?

DAVID BROOKS: Not particularly.

The Republicans# are not the party of government.

They're the party## of shrinking government.

And under the shutdown# right now, he's been blocked from really getting## rid of what he calls Democratic programs,# but he is able to fund the things he likes.

And so they have managed to wrangle some# funds for the servicemen.

They have for TSA,## for ICE, those sorts of people.

And so they get to## fund the things they like and don't# -- and everybody else gets nothing.

It's -- two things that are astonishing to me,# one, how everybody's blase about it.

The whole## -- not in the DMV, in our area, but everywhere# else in the country, it's like, what do you do?## And the capacity to be shocked by our politics is# clearly going away.

And so that's the first thing.

The second thing is I'm curious to know# what happens over the next three weeks,## because the notifications for the health# care costs, those letters are going out.

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: No.. something.

But I would not assume that this# is going to end any time in October.

I think## when that November number comes out, we# will see how the public reacts, if at all.

AMNA NAWAZ: You think this could break the last# record for the shutdown then?

That was 35 days.

DAVID BROOKS: Oh, yes, quite easily, yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan, you agree with that?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Oh, I agree with that.

And# Nove.. I think, for Democrats, November 1 is the date.

To David's point, that's when the things that# they have been warning about kick in.

And so## if that doesn't bring people to the table,# if that doesn't get the president to say,## all right, jokers, let's get into a room# and hammer this out, I don't know what will.

AMNA NAWAZ: That's when the enrollment will open,## right?

And we know the subsidies expire at the end# of the yea.. The other thing the Republican Party is# wrestling with, as I'm sure you have seen,## the contents and the coverage of that# leaked group chat among leaders from## the Young Republican groups that was# first reported, of course, by Politico.

You have seen Vice President Vance's response to# that.

He was dismissive of it and said this is## what kids do.

He also pointed towards the violent# text messages that were from Democrat Jay Jones,## who's running for attorney general in Virginia,# who apologized last night, but is still running.

And today we should note that the New# York chapter of the Young Republicans## was suspended after some of its members# were revealed to be a part of that group.

David, how did you look at this story# and what the chat reveals to us?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, it's sort of logical# extension of either the alt-right or MAGA,## which is the whole idea of MAGA is to be# transgressive, to shock the middle class,## shock the Protestant, the -- not the# Protestant elite, the progressive elite.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: I like the Protestant elite.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: And when you do that and.. online are going to say things like "I like# Hitler" because the norms have been taken away.

And, in France, the Bohemians used to call# it epater la bourgeoisie, like shock the## bourgeoisie.

And so you get this rolling nihilism# that all norms are gone, and the most offensive## thing you can say suddenly becomes cool.

And# that's what's happened when you erode norms.

And you can't just do what Elise Stefanik# did, which is, this is appalling.

Like,## it is the simplest thing# to say.

This is appalling.

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: J.D.

Vance could have said that, but he's been so long in these circles# that he doesn't want to burn his .. AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan, what do you make of it?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: The whole situation# is deplorable.

The people making those## comments are deplorable.

The vice president of the# United States and what he had to say about, well,## these are just kids, I'm sorry, there's# a 34-year-old kid, a 24-year-old kid?

No, these are not children.

These are adults.# And the idea that the vice president of the## United States couldn't set a moral example and# say, this is unacceptable, this is not who we## are as a party -- you know why he can't say it?# Because this is who they are right now as a party.

And you know what?

We shouldn't even be talking# about the vice president.

We should be talking## about the president.

We have a president who# dabbles in this language, who campaigned not## in this exact language, but in that atmosphere, in# that milieu, if we're going to use French words.

And so if the president of# the United States is doing it and can do it,## well, why should we be surprised that you have got# 20-somethings, 30-somethings, people -- there's## -- one of them was an elected official, people# who are young leaders in the Republican Party.

Why are we surprised that they're# engaging in this kind of conversation,## even when they acknowledge like, hey, if# these leak, we will be in trouble, ha,## ha, ha.

Twenty -- what is it, 2,900# pages' worth of these text messages?

Come on.

This#is terrible.

It's deplorable.

AMNA NAWAZ: We will say excellent# French pronunciation by you both## on that.

I really do appreciate that.

Before we go, I do want to ask# you about another remarkable moment this week,## which I'm sure you saw this video, scores# of Pentagon reporters who refused to sign## the new rules that were introduced by# Secretary Hegseth turned in their badges,## packed up their offices, and# they walked out en masse.

Just watching those scenes,# David, what did you think?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, I thought of the First# Amendment.

I mean, there's a reason there## is a First Amendment, because -- and# for 200-some-odd years of our history,## people acknowledged that the press actually plays# a role and that it's a useful and necessary role,## and the politicians don't like# it, but they appreciate the role.

And this administration clearly does# not appreciate the role.

Their M.O.## is to get -- go after anything that# might restrain them.

And the press## is a restraint and the Constitution is a# restraint.

They're a bunch of restraints.

And so when I saw those pictures,# I just saw Trump being Trump,## but the reporters, including all our new# organizations really, they had no choice,## because this criminalized journalism.

The# rules they were imposing, if you were digging## for a story that they didn't want you to# have, they could in theory prosecute you.

And so of course they had to say no.# It was the easiest call in the history## of journalism.

But I just thought# about restraint and the lack thereof.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: It was the free press literally## on parade out of the building.

And# it was a wonderful thing to see.

And also this is the 21st century.

They# don't need to be in that building.

And## actually maybe it will make their# jobs a little easier because, oh,## you're not in the Pentagon.

I'm going# to meet with sources.

The sources will## come to you outside without having the# eyes of other people looking at them.

I just think journal -- our jobs as journalists# aren't -- isn't meant to be easy.

We get big## stories and we break big stories by busting# our butts and working our sources and making## it possible for people to come to us and# tell the stories that change history.

And so what those folks did at the Pentagon,# I applaud them.

And, quite honestly,## there others in our profession who# should look at them as an example.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks,## always great to end the week# with you both.

Thank you so much.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Adieu.

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: Adieu.

Au revoir.