- She's an award-winning fiction writer, poet, and editor whose work has expanded the territory, as well as the audience for science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy, including the landscapes and magic of her hometown of Memphis, Tennessee.

I'm George Larrimore.

This is A Conversation with Sheree Renee Thomas.

[upbeat instrumental music] Hello, everybody, I'm George Larrimore.

And welcome to A Conversation with.

Today, we're talking with a storyteller.

Sheree Renee Thomas is an award-winning writer of speculative fiction and science fiction.

And she is currently the editor of the "Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction".

She is the first person of color to hold that job in that magazine's 75-year history.

Among Sheree's books are "Nine Bar Blues: Stories from an Ancient Future", and the multi-genre collection, "Sleeping Under The Tree of Life".

She is also the author of Marvel's "Black Panther: Panther's Rage".

As an editor, she's also put together the black speculative fiction anthologies, "Dark Matter".

Among her honors, Sheree Renee Thomas has received the Octavia E. Butler Award, the World Fantasy Award, the Locust Award for Best Anthology.

She's a two-time finalist for the Hugo Award for the best editor, and is a recipient of a fellowship from the Tennessee Arts Commission.

Many of Sheree Renee's stories draw on a fictional map of places that we all know, North Memphis, Orange Mound, The Pyramid, the river, the delta.

But this is Memphis portrayed in a way you have not read before.

Sheree, thank you so much for being with us today.

- All right, thank you.

- As you go into your house, there is a sign on a whiteboard on the wall that it seems to be kind of prompts for you during doing what you do during the day as you write.

But the biggest words are, "Every word must conjure."

What does that... What are you saying to yourself with that?

- Oh, I'm reminding myself about the power of words and storytelling.

It's a way to stay focused on the magic of storytelling, and to try to be honest about that process.

and all the work that it takes to write a story.

Yeah.

[laughs] - Is writing hard for you?

- It isn't, editing is sometimes.

But writing, I love that.

[laughs] Yeah, revising is hard.

[laughs] - We wanna talk about your writing in a minute.

But first, I want to talk about listening.

The first time you and I spoke on the phone, you were telling me about your grandparents.

You were telling me about growing up as a child in a family of storytellers.

You told me, "I loved listening to them talk."

Tell me about those people, and what you heard, and what you got from it.

- Well, yeah, I was around masterful storytellers.

And I think that's something that's really common with Memphians.

I think we have a very special way of telling stories.

We can make mundane magical.

And we have a amazing sense of humor.

And my grandparents had that.

My granddaddy, Ezekiel, lived in North Memphis.

And he and his neighbors, they were the elders.

And they would always kind of congregate in his yard under this giant pecan tree.

And I just love to listen, and to hear them laugh about their childhood, about coming from the country and living in Memphis, and some of the true tales they would tell us were really scary.

And then some of the hate tales they would tell us would be terrifying.

And I think my favorite memories of my grandfather on his porch is he would wait until the sun went down until it was twilight, right?

And it would get dark under that, under that porch.

And I would just see him light up his cigarette.

And it would just be like a red eye in the night.

And the fireflies would be all around us.

And then he would wait and he would start tellin' us stories.

And it just, it hooked me very early.

- What kind of stories were they?

You talked about some of them were scary stories, I think, but family stories?

- Family stories, Bible stories, stories I think he might have made up, stories about the way life used to be and how he made his way through it.

And I think things that he wanted us to know about the world.

So, yeah.

- Do you still kind of feel that presence in the work that you do now?

In terms of that storytelling tradition, do you... Are you trying to sort of pass that on in the audience that reads what you write?

- I'm definitely focused on the orality of the storytelling, the vocalizations of it, the sound effects he would make sometimes, the expressions.

And I try to call that up when I'm writing and creating characters on the page to try to bring them to life, yeah.

- Memphis is a fertile place for your imagination.

In your book, "Nine Star Blues", which you brought along today, there are several stories that talk about specific locations, about Orange Mound, about North Memphis.

But if you don't mind, would you read something from that book?

Whatever you choose to read will be fine.

I just would like our audience to hear how it sounds coming from you.

- Okay, I'd be happy to read from "Nine Bar Blues".

This is from "Stars Come Down".

"That afternoon, three soldiers came to the Mound.

"They scattered the goats and the chickens, "ran the stray dogs away with their steel-toed feet.

"They went to Candy Lady's house black-booted "and stoked up laughing as she fumbled at the screen door.

"'Where the good bottles at,' they said "and rummaged through her cooler.

"They stoled her flat sodas "and popped the tops right in her face, "pulled her liquor from the high shelf in dance, "waving the amber bottles high "above their indigo stained hands.

"'I'ma need this and this and this,' they said.

"They said they stumbled and swung at each other, "bumbling around like strange blue black buffalo.

"The floor beneath their boots "sounded like broken teeth and glass.

"The guns on their hips thumped, silent reminders.

"They snatched up Candy Lady's Now and Laters "and stepped on her Lemonheads too.

"One grabbed a pickle from the great glass jar "and sucked it lewdly.

"He leered as the peppermint "and juice ran down his busted chin.

"Candy Lady slammed a new newly empty drawer shut.

"Bags of skins lay scattered on the floor.

"Each Saturday, the Booker T. soldiers got in her stash, "pushed her patience, and got on her very last nerve.

"She decided this Saturday would be the end of it, the end.

"She took a key from the counter and went to the back.

"They tumbled out the front door, "drank the warm pop amidst the mosquitoes in the flies, "and saved the dark liquor for last.

"Avante watched them from his window across the street "as he waited for his papa to slide on his shoes.

"They both listened to the soldiers raucous laughter, "while the television whined and whispered its warnings.

"Papa borrowed the flat screen from a family "of Langston's who lived down the way.

"They tried to escape when the Mound first broke out in war.

"No one had seen them since.

"Papa had watched their front door for three whole weeks "before he crept across the street.

"Papa took their books and left the music "and their rotten food.

"Avante was being raised as a Langston, too.

"But even at 10, he knew there was more to life than poetry.

"Mr. Lerner had told him so.

"The boy had grown wild and wiry, like autumn weeds, "in the three years they lived in the Mound.

"Tall for a Langston, more built like a gnat.

"People sometimes spoke to Avante like he was full grown.

"Mama said it was his height that confused them.

"Papa said, 'Nah, when you see a black child, "they always think you're grown.'

"Mr. Lerner said it was because Avante was exceptional.

Avante didn't quite believe him, but he liked hearing that."

- Wow.

Do you find yourself driving around Memphis looking, listening to what's in the atmosphere here, to feed you to write the stuff that you write?

- I just live.

I live and I observe.

And every now and then, something will hit me.

And I'll think, "Ah, that was interesting how that person said that."

Or I'll see something and it'll come to me.

And it'll be a image.

And I'll write it down and think about it later.

You never know what'll come up.

[laughs] - So you make a lot of notes.

- I do, I do, yeah.

- If you don't mind, let's talk about the "Magazine of Science... Fantasy and Science Fiction".

You are the editor of that magazine.

It had been publishing for 75 years.

And it wasn't until you came along that there was anyone who looked like you who had ever had that job.

What was it like when it was offered to you?

What was the excitement level?

What were the expectations that you felt?

And what were you trying to bring to the job?

- Hmm, I like to think of it... - Or to the magazine.

- Oh yeah.

[laughs] - I like to think of it as like a dream I didn't know I had.

When I first think about the magazine, FNSF, I saw it in the grocery stores.

They used to sell it in the Kroger's, I believe.

And I remember being at one of the stores with my mom and seeing a particular interesting cover, and just begging her, "Mom, get that for me."

You know, and she always was a big science fiction reader anyway.

And she read "Omni Magazine", I remember that.

It's the first time I read stories by Greg Bear and Howard Waldrop.

So she got me the magazine when I was a kid.

But I would never have thought I'd be editing it.

It's a lot of work.

A lot of work because we get a lot of submissions and stories.

But the best thing about it is reading the stories from these excellent writers around the world.

And that makes it so, so much worth the time, yeah.

- Do you feel like your point of view has helped to expand the vision of the magazine?

What they... To expand the audience of the magazine?

- I like to think so.

I like to think so.

Each editor brings their own way of seein' the world to the work that they bring to the magazine.

And there's stories that we all love.

Every one of them has a sense of wonder in it, whether it's science fiction, or fantasy, or a little bit of the scarier things, or the things that are hard to describe, just the weird tales, right?

And I love stories that are character-centered, that are around people, no matter if they're on Earth, or beyond, or some other realm.

Whether it's a magical world that's being created, or whether it's something that's very much in the realm of possibility, it's the characters that I remember.

And those are the kinds of stories, works that are beautifully written, great voices, that I like to talk about and share with other people.

So, yeah.

- You mentioned your mom and her turning you on to it.

You also mentioned earlier that there was a stack of books in your house that... [Sheree laughs] Tell us about that because it sounds like that was sort of where you began looking at this kind of, at this kind of literature.

- Yeah, I'm a '70s child.

But back then, they had the bookshelves that were the headboards.

And so my parents' favorite books were on those shelves, right?

And maybe some of the books they did not want us to read, like the Jackie Collins [laughs] and the Sidney Sheldon romance books.

And so those were kind of off limits.

But I was always in their room when they weren't in there.

So, of course, I'm reading the Jackie Collins.

And I'm reading also "The Silmarillion".

I'm reading Tolkien.

So I got in trouble one day 'cause my mom saw that I had been in her books.

And when she saw that I was reading that prequel to "Lord of the Rings", she said, "Oh, it's time to get you a library card."

You know, and so, I got my...

I think I got my first card for the Hollywood branch, yeah.

- Writing is reading, ultimately, isn't it?

- It absolutely is.

[laughs] I feel like you should read 10 times as much as you write, you know?

But it's funny because when you're a writer, it's different than when you're reading for pleasure.

I remember Greg Bear saying that he felt a little bit like he had stopped being able to read simply for pleasure when he became a professional writer, because he's always looking and examining.

And I find myself also looking at things I love, in particular, and wondering how did they do that?

How did they make me feel the way I felt when I read that passage or when I read that line?

And so it's always a learning process too, yeah.

- You were chosen to write a novelization of the Black Panther saga, "Black Panther: Panther's Rage".

Again, the thrill of writing something that is so popular and so well-known, but the expectations and perhaps doubts.

Tell us about how that was for you to be offered that job and to take that job.

- Listen, it was out of this world.

[laughs] I used to watch Batman with my grandmother, right?

I think Batman was probably the first comic book I, you know, I saw on television, Batman with Eartha Kitt as Cat Lady.

And also, of course, we watched the Superman as well.

Later, I would be able to sell Black Panther comics at a bookstore that used to be on South Main Street, Gallery 350.

So when I think about the Black Panther, he's one of the first black heroes that I remembered as a child and as a young person.

And, of course, there's always Static Shock and those great comics as well.

And so it was like another adventure I was going on.

I was very honored when they asked me to, to dive into Don McGregor's world.

I mean, he made history, him, and Christopher Priest, and Reginald Hudlin had really made the Black Panther what it is today.

And so to go back and to create a novel around Panther's Rage, that amazing iconic arc, that was a lot of fun, yeah.

- Let's go back and and talk about the Black Panther movie, the original movie.

The first movie, there are now two.

But you were saying to me that this, a movie that made $1.3 billion worldwide, I believe.

It was the first superhero movie, if you will, to be nominated for a Best Picture.

It was the most gross ever earned by an African-American director who directed the film.

But you saw something special when you saw audiences see that movie in Memphis.

Tell us what that was that you saw.

- Well, I remember the excitement around it, right?

Everybody... Everyone had plans to go see this movie.

And I don't remember that kind of excitement in a long time.

Church buses of people were going to see the Black Panther.

- Older people?

- Older people were going.

- It was intergenerational.

And people were going in costume, right?

There was a costume competition at the theater that I went to.

There were after parties, you know.

And I knew that this was gonna be a powerful film.

When I saw how Memphis responded to it, I knew it was gonna make records because it spoke to something in all of us.

We love superhero movies for a reason, right?

It reminds us that we can be greater than what we think we can.

And that sometimes, heroes can be found in ordinary people, right, or ordinary people in extraordinary situations, and vice versa.

And I feel like Memphis needs a lot of love.

And it needs a lot of care.

And there was something about that story that spoke to the hopes and the dreams of the city and what it could be to see a Wakanda.

You know, we would love to have that kind of peace, and prosperity, and creativity, and magic in Memphis.

And we will.

I feel that we will have that.

So it was somethin'.

- You put on an event here in, I think it was 2018, the Black to the Future event in Memphis.

And again, we spoke on the phone.

And you were telling me about what happened there, what the turnout was like, what took place at the event, and what your feeling was at the time.

Tell me about that, about what you saw in that event.

- I saw the community come out.

We scheduled it the same weekend as Africa in April, which is a Memphis tradition.

Wonderful, Ephraim and Sheila Erevbu hosted us.

Ephraim was one of my mentors when I was in college.

That's when I was still trying to decide what my future would be, if I would go into art, visual art, or if I would be a writer.

And they opened the gallery up to us and the whole community, as they have before.

And artists from everywhere came.

Families, children were there, cosplayers where there, scholars came, and writers.

And it was just a great time, musicians.

I saw, you know, what is possible when you open your doors and you leave people's imaginations to collaborate and work together.

And that was really important.

I met some great people and we just started.

We just kept goin' from there, yeah.

- Now you were, we were talking earlier, you were married to a writer as well.

Now, how does that work?

- "The world is round", as the poet Nikky Finney says.

We found out not too long ago that we went to the same elementary school, right?

But didn't know it, right?

And our first big date was the Southern Festival of Books in Nashville, which we didn't even know it was a date at the time.

[laughs] You know, we were just going to the festival.

And I was going to read from "Nine Bar Blues", actually, for Third Man Books.

And it was just a great weekend.

And to meet Danien, it really changed my life.

He's such a wonderful person and a fantastic writer.

So just putting our heads together, it's been a lot of fun, yeah.

- Now you...

When were you... How long did you live in New York?

- Oh, I lived in New York for a couple of decades.

Yep, yeah.

- And you came back when?

- I came back around 2010, though I wasn't certain I was gonna be here for long.

I wasn't sure about that.

But being home, they say you can't come home.

And I say, you can come home, but you don't come home the same, right, because your home is not a static place.

It may be dated in your mind.

But once you come home, you realize that a lot has changed, a lot of good energy has happened, and that you can be a part of it.

That festival was part of that effort for me to be a part of the good things that I saw that was happening in the city that I didn't see so much when I left all those years ago.

And it's just been some wonderful growth, yeah.

- You have... You've written a poem about it.

And if you don't... Would you mind reading that for us?

- Oh, sure.

[laughs] - Okay, I just happened to have brought it along with me.

But this poem, as I read it, it kind of explains to some degree how you made the decision to come back.

- All righty.

- So if you'd read that for us, please, and tell us the name of the book too.

- Oh, this is from "Sleeping Under the Tree of Life".

[laughs] "Return Song: Or Why I Went South".

"Because I want it to be blind again, "crawl through the call they call a veil and see again.

"Because I wanted to feel Black, "feel the darkness heavy and wet and good all around me.

"I wanted to be hailed like the night sky "holds the comets pouring down the old bridge like rain.

"I wanted to feel the molecules of night "dance on my skin, like the flutter of wings.

"Because I want it to be where they know my naval names.

"How to make each syllable sing "with sanctified country beats.

"Because I wanted to remember the things "I was supposed to forget, "to lean and learn them as blood "learns the way of sweet veins, "as a river learns the sway of its own banks.

"Because I wanted to fall into the muddy waters, "to be cleansed again, "unbury the string beneath the tree, "to be born again, an old soul alive and dark, bright with knowing."

- Memphis is a city that is struggling at the moment, perhaps more so than it has in a long time.

But you've said something to me in conversation that the Memphis that you see on the news is not the Memphis that you know.

Tell me about what you see here, and how can we work our way through this, and what the future holds, particularly with young people?

- I see young people who are waiting on other people to see the potential in them.

I see young people who are so creative, who are so talented and hopeful, who are multi-talented, right, like the elders.

But there're not a lot of venues for them to share and show that talent as young people.

So I see people who are waiting on us to decide that Memphis, and when I say Memphis, I mean all of Memphis, is worth investing in, and is worth holding dear, and treating like it's a treasure, and that we are all connected to the fate of those lives.

I see Memphians who are so underutilized in this city, and that they could really... We could levitate if we start tapping into into that joy.

And I see good people all over who work together, who are uncelebrated people, who cause no problems at all, who look out for each other.

And they are nurturing the green things that are a part of this community and the green parts of themselves.

So, yeah.

- Do you talk to a lot of young people who read your work?

- I do, I do.

- What do they tell you?

What do they say to you?

- That they got a book too?

[laughs] - How do you get there?

Do they ask you that question?

- Yeah, they got a book too.

Lemme tell you.

[laughs] - Everybody's got- - Everybody's got a book.

- They got a song.

They have something, you know.

And that's really exciting 'cause I remember being that hype about my own work, you know.

And so one of the things that Danien and I have done is Neighborhood Heroes, which we use comic books as a kind of a fun way to connect to young people, because comic books are a great way to get reluctant readers excited about books.

It's the best world.

It's images and vocabulary, right, and storytelling.

And we're all trained in storytelling, you know.

So having young people create their own comics, think about Memphis futures and what they would do if they had power to make decisions about our public spaces, and how would we use resources, and how we would solve some of the common problems here.

They have a lot of ideals.

We found that out.

We partner with 901 Comics, which is a great, great shop.

And they have this fabulous program where they give age appropriate comics out into the community.

And we just had a great time with that, right on the Mississippi River.

So yeah, young people are ready.

So never, never, never count them out, yeah.

- We got a couple of minutes left.

And I wanna ask you to talk about how it feels as a writer when you have written something that works, when you have written something that's good.

How does that feel to you to do that?

It's hard to get inside the head of a writer.

And that's what I'm trying to do.

- It's so funny, I have to move the editor aside for a moment because the editor sees all the places where you gotta make it better, and you gotta revise, and rewrite, rewrite, and think about it.

But when I feel that it's actually achieve something that I didn't even anticipate, that's usually how it works.

You have an idea for a project or a piece, and you think you know where it's going.

And then it's the journey that gets you.

It's that discovery, which makes the writing fun, right?

When I feel like I've really said what I was trying to say, or got close enough to it as I'm gonna get, right, it's a great feeling.

I don't know, it's like...

I don't know, I feel like it's my granddaddy sitting back on n his porch rocking back, you know, in the breeze in the night.

You know, it's a good feeling.

- Saying, "Yes, you did it."

- Yeah.

- Sheree, thank you so much for being with us today.

- Oh, thank you.

- And I really enjoy your work.

And if you haven't read Sheree Renee Thomas' work, please do.

It's a revelation.

Thank you very much for joining us here on "A Conversation with".

I'm George Larrimore.

See you next time.

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